Red Winch - Integrated Front Winch - User Manual

[Logsplitter]

If I may qualify your statement with "and still meet type approval/pedestrian safety standards"; and that seems to be the advantage of the aftermarket who can whip out the centre section of the existing bumper (enabled by Ineos deliberately designing it this way) and suddenly have loads of space for a normal sized winch.

If you modify the front bumper and put a bigger winch be sure to notify your insurance company. Many Insurance company’s are not so keen on aftermarket modifications but quite happy with factory fitted kit. In the unlikely event of hitting a pedestrian it would surely be picked up and go against you.

 

[DCPU]

It’s not a bad deal when you consider that is a highly regarded manufacturer, it comes installed, wired, with uprated front springs a five year warranty and is presumably integrated with the vehicle crash safety systems. I doubt without significant surgery you will get one that fits in OE bumper, but no doubt there will be bumper replacement options.

Anyone got it in writing it's covered by a five year warranty and what are the exclusions?

Start with Red Winches standard warranty, which Ineos may supplement, and you have this:

"All RED Winch Explorers are backed with a 2-year mechanical warranty. This covers all mechanical parts. Wearing parts, bearings, brake pads etc are excluded, as are electrical components, motors and solenoid packs".

Given what an electric winch is, there's quite a bit of it excluded...

 

[DCPU]

$4085 installed for Red 11k winch, with only 43' of line?! Ha! Umm, it might be a great winch, but not a "stellar financial deal."

Is the high load switch pack included in your price?

 

[DCPU]

Not ideal, but you can still do the double line pull depending on how you rig it, but you will still be limited to the 13m maximum pull length or the maximum distance between the vehicle and the pulley whichever is less.. The join has to be on the vehicle side of the pulley, fine if you just need to get out of a hole, not going to be great If you have to get up a whole mountain.

10.5m by Ingemar's reckoning ~ two car lengths with a safety margin.

A difference of 2.5 m should be neither here nor there for a winch line, but it's 24% extra in this example, which sort of illustrates the compromise.

 

[DCPU]

If you modify the front bumper and put a bigger winch be sure to notify your insurance company. Many Insurance company’s are not so keen on aftermarket modifications but quite happy with factory fitted kit. In the unlikely event of hitting a pedestrian it would surely be picked up and go against you.

Quite agree ~ there's plenty of specialist insurance companies out there for old Defenders with all the Camel Trophy kit, but it will take time for mirrored premiums on the Grenadier.

I was surprised when I did my insurance for the Grenadier that some insurers classed modifications as including: towball, roof rack, tinted windows, external stickers, rock sliders, steps irrespective of whether they were OEM or not.

 

[Logsplitter]

Quite agree ~ there's plenty of specialist insurance companies out there for old Defenders with all the Camel Trophy kit, but it will take time for mirrored premiums on the Grenadier.

I was surprised when I did my insurance for the Grenadier that some insurers classed modifications as including: towball, roof rack, tinted windows, external stickers, rock sliders, steps irrespective of whether they were OEM or not.

The one company I found with my Defender that was happy with modifications and accessories was Adrian Flux who were always helpful but unfortunately not competitive with Grenadier

 

[AnD3rew]

If I may qualify your statement with "and still meet type approval/pedestrian safety standards"; and that seems to be the advantage of the aftermarket who can whip out the centre section of the existing bumper (enabled by Ineos deliberately designing it this way) and suddenly have loads of space for a normal sized winch.

Yes, agree with that, I think Insaid something similar buried many posts back in this thread

 

[jeremy_matrix]

Internet forums aren’t good for avoiding misunderstandings. The way you had written your previous it looked like you were implying we weren’t familiar with putting ARB bars and warn winches on our vehicles.

Must have been your accent.

Well I've learnt something new today!
I really should stop watching TV

At your service!

Based on Australian prices for ARB and Warn and based on Toyota 70 series as they don’t have INEOS yet.
Winch bar fitted: $2642 (aftermarket winch won’t go in IG bar)
Warn Zeon 12,000lb winch $2363
Fitting charge $231
rope and fitting sundries $1500
Total $6736.
Plus front suspension upgrade $1500
Total $8236

Grenadier winch (includes front suspension upgrade)
$5,705

So it stacks up and you get 5 year warranty.
To be fair I will add the INEOS bullbar as its an extra you would get with ARB
$2,070
Total
$7,775

Ok so you only get 13m of rope and for various reasons you might prefer the aftermarket option. All very fair. But it really isn’t accurate to say that the INEOS offering is not priced competitively.

We're talking about winches that weigh ~80lbs. You do NOT need a front susp upgrade when adding 80lbs of "payload."
There are 7 susp (spring) setups for the IG. IA rep said the more you load up your IG, the heavier rate springs you get. So are you telling me AnD3rew that you will be swapping out your springs for a heavier rate for when you go to the supermarket and stock up on food/drink?? That can easily weigh more than an 80lb winch.
And who has determined that an aftermarket winch won't fit into the IG front bumper??

I'm curious to know if the engineers looked at and discounted other placements for the winch that would have allowed a less compromised line length.

Anyone got it in writing it's covered by a five year warranty and what are the exclusions?

Start with Red Winches standard warranty, which Ineos may supplement, and you have this:
"All RED Winch Explorers are backed with a 2-year mechanical warranty. This covers all mechanical parts. Wearing parts, bearings, brake pads etc are excluded, as are electrical components, motors and solenoid packs".

Given what an electric winch is, there's quite a bit of it excluded...

Is the high load switch pack included in your price?

Ditto.
Agreed. Where does IG say the winch has a 5yr warranty? All I see on the IA site is; "BASE - 5 YEARS OR 60,000 MILES. WHICHEVER COMES FIRST." No details on "upgrades" being included. Maybe in Europe/AUS there is fine print that says upgrades are included?
I'm equipping with $1650USD high load panel regardless of IG Red winch.

If you modify the front bumper and put a bigger winch be sure to notify your insurance company. Many Insurance company’s are not so keen on aftermarket modifications but quite happy with factory fitted kit. In the unlikely event of hitting a pedestrian it would surely be picked up and go against you.

Not required in the USA, unless you want the winch included in the "added assessed value" of the vehicle.

 

[Tazzieman]

We're talking about winches that weigh ~80lbs. You do NOT need a front susp upgrade when adding 80lbs of "payload."
There are 7 susp (spring) setups for the IG. IA rep said the more you load up your IG, the heavier rate springs you get. So are you telling me AnD3rew that you will be swapping out your springs for a heavier rate for when you go to the supermarket and stock up on food/drink?? That can easily weigh more than an 80lb winch.

It's where the weight is added and it's effect on braking, steering and handling that's the deciding factor.
The supermarket goods are placed between the axles.

 

[jeremy_matrix]

It's where the weight is added and it's effect on braking, steering and handling that's the deciding factor.
The supermarket goods are placed between the axles.

You guys in Australia/Tasmania are talking to people on this forum like no one else in the world knows jack isht about vehicle dynamics....
We're talking about a winch weighing 80lbs gents. That's 1/2-1/3 a front passenger. Are you going to upgrade your front springs to optimize the rig for when you take a heavier front passenger??
Or what about when you fill the rear cargo area with a load of cement bags for a home project? What are you going to do then?

 

[Tazzieman]

You guys in Australia/Tasmania are talking to people on this forum like no one else in the world knows jack isht about vehicle dynamics....
We're talking about a winch weighing 80lbs gents. That's 1/2-1/3 a front passenger. Are you going to upgrade your front springs to optimize the rig for when you take a heavier front passenger??
Or what about when you fill the rear cargo area with a load of cement bags for a home project? What are you going to do then?

Drive an old 911 with the weight behind the back axles. Hammer effect , only takes a few kg to upset the apple cart when loaded in a corner.
Theoretical fatty passenger is sitting between the axles , unless he's rednecked enough to sit on the bullbar.

 

[jeremy_matrix]

Drive an old 911 with the weight behind the back axles. Hammer effect , only takes a few kg to upset the apple cart when loaded in a corner.
Theoretical fatty passenger is sitting between the axles , unless he's rednecked enough to sit on the bullbar.

Done it, plenty of times.
Aircooled 911(especially a 930T) is NOT a Grenadier, and vice versa.

Well there is adequate room in the 2nd row, but MrBigs may request to ride shotgun. <gasp> Better upgrade your coil springs!

 

[Tazzieman]

IA engineering dept. are covering their arses - allowing for poor roads , poor driving choices and particularly in NA , rabid litigants.

 

[jeremy_matrix]

IA engineering dept. are covering their arses - allowing for poor roads , poor driving choices and particularly in NA , rabid litigants.

They are doing this how? No one even knows which of the 7 coil spring specs a vehicle gets; supposedly it's up to IA to determine that based on total options added.

We were talking about adding a winch after purchase, and Aussies saying that the IG would need heavier rate front springs = extra cost.

 

[Tazzieman]

We were talking about adding a winch after purchase

customisation makes you or your "add on" guy the responsible engineer.

 

[AnD3rew]

We're talking about winches that weigh ~80lbs. You do NOT need a front susp upgrade when adding 80lbs of "payload."
There are 7 susp (spring) setups for the IG. IA rep said the more you load up your IG, the heavier rate springs you get. So are you telling me AnD3rew that you will be swapping out your springs for a heavier rate for when you go to the supermarket and stock up on food/drink?? That can easily weigh more than an 80lb winch.
And who has determined that an aftermarket winch won't fit into the IG front bumper?

Weight out front in front of the axle is different to a case of beer in the back, but it’s more about the fact that you will also need a replacement bar which also adds weight. The bar is different if you don’t order the winch so it isn’t set up for one, and if you have seen it in real life you will see there isn’t a lot of room. If you are very determined and prepared to do some serious surgery you may be able to make one go on, but I would be assuming that the easiest way to achieve it is with a replacement bar. And that adds weight. Every vehicle I have seen that has had a bar and winch added needs a suspension upgrade just to return the front to stock height.

Where does IG say the winch has a 5yr warranty? All I see on the IA site is; "BASE - 5 YEARS OR 60,000 MILES. WHICHEVER COMES FIRST." No details on "upgrades" being included. Maybe in Europe/AUS there is fine print that says upgrades are included?
I'm equipping with $1650USD high load panel regardless of IG Red winch.

Don’t know what yours says. But ours specifically says it covers genuine accessories for the full five year unlimited kms warranty.

 

[globalgregors]

Thanks for this ... although an "advertorial" I found it quite informative... I estimated he must be close to 4+ ton all up and when you have "lotza"space, there's a tendency to fill it (like a shed). I am wondering if he really needed all the stuff ...but good on him! I'm impressed as to how he recognised a market niche, started as a cottage industry in a country town and built a substantial enterprise with excellent brand recognition and has expanded interstate...
(Rather than sticky Thai rice...sticky date pudding is more my thing !!)

Indeed. I was being tongue-in-cheek about our national 4WD culture rather than having a dig at Luke.
Folks may not recognise him as the principal (founder/CEO) of Drifta Camping and 4WD, who retail both in Oz and the EU.

Drifta Camping & 4WD - Camping Gear, Trailers, 4WD Drawers & Kitchens

100% Australian owned and made, Drifta products are specially designed to help keep campers and travellers organised in the bush and on the road.

www.drifta.com.au

 

[DCPU]

They are doing this how? No one even knows which of the 7 coil spring specs a vehicle gets; supposedly it's up to IA to determine that based on total options added.

We were talking about adding a winch after purchase, and Aussies saying that the IG would need heavier rate front springs = extra cost.

Cough ~ we've started our own empirical evidence gathering:

https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/coil-springs.12412069/

But it only works if more owners don't sit on their hands...

 

[Tazzieman]

Yes but are you really grasping the essentials… Thai Sticky Rice, for example?

This guy did the CSR in a Jeep , just him and his old man.

View: https://youtu.be/7UR6agkRbT4

 

[globalgregors]

This guy did the CSR in a Jeep , just him and his old man.

View: https://youtu.be/7UR6agkRbT4

Yeah, we’re a bit more aligned with Dan in our approach in terms of vehicle prep and where to land on the light<=>heavy spectrum. So many dividends if one keeps the weight down.

I think this more typical of international overlanders who tend to have less of the knickknacks that are carried in Oz and the US.
This might partly be down to being mentally prepared to walk away from your vehicle, as one must be in places where things can get sketchy.

It’s also more unusual to have fires in most countries so being out of that habit has a surprisingly big impact on equipment, cooking methods, evening camp routine etc.

Ceaselessly interested by these different styles of camping though, and while I can’t imagine ever carrying a pizza oven I find it kind of marvellous that this is where some folks are at.