Rear seat back noise knocking over bumps

[Tom109]

I need to find some time to see if I have the same clunk. If so, I may just wrap cord around the pivot and see if that cures it.

 

[grenadierboy]

Just returned from my INEOS agent to show them the seat rattle.

I took a copy of D-Mack's photo of the broken bushing (see above).

Senior service guy said...."that's a French job"!!

You mean the new bushing has to come from the factory, I asked?

"No - I will have your back seat removed and sent back to France and take a bqck seat from one of our demo models"

 

[DenisM]

Many thanks @C-Mack and @grenadierboy !
A solution at last! My VIN is xxxx20xx. Am wondering whether it's a batch issue ...and if Ineos receive the complete seat assembly from Recaro for their "Just In Time" production line install, then it's Recaro's problem...
I shall henceforth sleep peacefully and ask local Bris. dealer if they're aware of it and where to from here....

 

[C-Mack]

Thanks for the expalination C-Mack.

Are you saying that the bushing you made & inserted has less tolerance (i.e. a tighter fit) around the pivot arm than the OEM bushing?

I called my agent yesterday (only 10km away) and explained the problem.

They asked me to bring the car in today for their service manager to assess problem and assess what parts are needed to fix under warranty.

Let's see what they do.

cheers

The main problem is there is a tolerance issue between the seat pivot pin (black bit attached to the wider seat back), the plastic bushing that snaps into the smaller seat back mounting hole that slips over the pivot pin when the seat back is installed. It is almost as if the pivot pin itself was made slightly undersized or the mounting hole in the smaller side seat back was made oversized. Either way the bushing just floats around in there between the two metal parts and doesn’t take up any slack. Hence the 2 to 3mm play you were experiencing and the knock/rattling noise. I had the same 2 to 3mm play and on every sharp bump the smaller seat back just rattled in place against the pivot.

All I did was turned a new sleeve/bushing using some Delrin plastic bushing material and sized it so it was a slight interference fit between the pivot pin and seat back mounting hole taking up that 2 to 3mm slack. It’s rock solid and the seat folds up and down just like before with no resistance. Not tooting my own horn but I think the sleeve I made is a better solution than the rather small and fragile OEM bushing as it is wider and can spread the load across the pin more evenly.

Let me know what you dealer finds out and if this is a batch problem. Tell them there is a guy state side experiencing the same issue you are and maybe it’s a wider issue and impacts other owners as well. My VIN ends in: 18002 so it’s probably impacting a certain number before and after my build. I only took delivery of mine in August haven’t even got 300 miles on it yet.

 

[grenadierboy]

Many thanks @C-Mack and @grenadierboy !
A solution at last! My VIN is xxxx20xx. Am wondering whether it's a batch issue ...and if Ineos receive the complete seat assembly from Recaro for their "Just In Time" production line install, then it's Recaro's problem...
I shall henceforth sleep peacefully and ask local Bris. dealer if they're aware of it and where to from here....

Denis, my VIN is 1746, so very close to you, so maybe a batch issue.

I am 100% certain the clunking noise was there when I first drove the car home from the dealer but I assumed it was the camp table. Also 100% the seats would be fully madeup at Recaro and installed at the INEOS factory.

The Melbourne based agent technician said he had not personally seen this back seat bushing issue before but he was very quick to say they would not try and fix it but, rather, seat goes back to factory.

 

[grenadierboy]

The main problem is there is a tolerance issue between the seat pivot pin (black bit attached to the wider seat back), the plastic bushing that snaps into the smaller seat back mounting hole that slips over the pivot pin when the seat back is installed. It is almost as if the pivot pin itself was made slightly undersized or the mounting hole in the smaller side seat back was made oversized. Either way the bushing just floats around in there between the two metal parts and doesn’t take up any slack. Hence the 2 to 3mm play you were experiencing and the knock/rattling noise. I had the same 2 to 3mm play and on every sharp bump the smaller seat back just rattled in place against the pivot.

All I did was turned a new sleeve/bushing using some Delrin plastic bushing material and sized it so it was a slight interference fit between the pivot pin and seat back mounting hole taking up that 2 to 3mm slack. It’s rock solid and the seat folds up and down just like before with no resistance. Not tooting my own horn but I think the sleeve I made is a better solution than the rather small and fragile OEM bushing as it is wider and can spread the load across the pin more evenly.

Let me know what you dealer finds out and if this is a batch problem. Tell them there is a guy state side experiencing the same issue you are and maybe it’s a wider issue and impacts other owners as well. My VIN ends in: 18002 so it’s probably impacting a certain number before and after my build. I only took delivery of mine in August haven’t even got 300 miles on it yet.

Yeah - I already told him that owners in the US have same issue. Our cars are 16,000 apart so it's not a sp3cific batch issue but rather as you say a part that is not quite fit for purpose!

If the plastic bushing for the smaller single spilt seat cracks again - I would probably fix it myself with the larger bushing

 

[C-Mack]

Denis, my VIN is 1746, so very close to you, so maybe a batch issue.

I am 100% certain the clunking noise was there when I first drove the car home from the dealer but I assumed it was the camp table. Also 100% the seats would be fully madeup at Recaro and installed at the INEOS factory.

The Melbourne based agent technician said he had not personally seen this back seat bushing issue before but he was very quick to say they would not try and fix it but, rather, seat goes back to factory.

The noise was there when I drove home from the dealership as well but didn’t really show itself until I was basically home. If my dealer was closer I would have had them deal with it for sure. When it comes to troubleshooting issues like this, in my experience, it usually takes a few back and forth trips and for me that would end up being hundreds of extra miles and wasn’t something I wanted to have to deal with as the road and traffic conditions are very crappy where I live plus the chances of a broken windshield or some other damage going back and forth to get if fixed would have been more than annoying.

I’d rather save my trips to the dealer for when the repairs are really obvious, major service, recall or software related stuff only they can handle. Besides, it was fun getting to know the vehicle a bit better and troubleshooting things. Now if they would just produce a workshop manual for it as they first hinted at a while back that would be even better for folks looking to keep up on their own maintenance.

 

[grenadierboy]

I hear you D-Mac and I would have done the same in your position.

Re: workshop manuals - they were not hinted at but promised by Sir Jim himself.

I can tell you that they are still many months away.

I was in a meeting last week with INEOS Australia and they confirmed the manuals are coming but are some away.

I am guessing way into 2025.

 

[parb]

How do you reproduce the problem when standing still? Can you move the seat to see if it rattles when moved by hand?

 

[DenisM]

How do you reproduce the problem when standing still? Can you move the seat to see if it rattles when moved by hand?

give the door-side of the seat back a sharp wack sideways just above the half way mark... you can see/hear if there is play in the fittings..

 

[parb]

give the door-side of the seat back a sharp wack sideways just above the half way mark... you can see/hear if there is play in the fittings..

Thanks. Will do.

 

[C-Mack]

Thanks. Will do.

Just a few sharp whacks on the top backside of the smaller seat back with the side of you fist near the split should get the seat to vibrate revealing the noise. It’ll sound like the short video clip below if you have the excessive play.

 

[grenadierboy]

Just a few sharp whacks on the top backside of the smaller seat back with the side of you fist near the split should get the seat to vibrate revealing the noise. It’ll sound like the short video clip below if you have the excessive play.

That's it broken plastic bushing worth $3.27 but dealer will replace the whole seat

 

[GN4HIR]

Just a few sharp whacks on the top backside of the smaller seat back with the side of you fist near the split should get the seat to vibrate revealing the noise. It’ll sound like the short video clip below if you have the excessive play.

I have not investigated this yet but I did find the plastic bushing laying on the floor under my 'subwoofer'. Are there two bushings, one door side and the other between the seats? I don't want them to replace my seat as I have aftermarket leather. I wonder if the bushing came out when they installed the leather and they failed to reinstall it?

 

[C-Mack]

I have not investigated this yet but I did find the plastic bushing laying on the floor under my 'subwoofer'. Are there two bushings, one door side and the other between the seats? I don't want them to replace my seat as I have aftermarket leather. I wonder if the bushing came out when they installed the leather and they failed to reinstall it?

Yes, there are two identical white plastic bushings which clip inside the pivot holes on either side on the smaller seat back. One between the seat backs where they fold down and the other near the door behind a plastic cover and is held in with a torx bolt. Both can easily be dislodged when the seat is apart especially if you have had work done and new leather installed.

It wouldn’t take much for one to go missing or be broken as the seat back is being re-installed as they are rather delicate parts. If either is missing you’ll have metal to metal contact at the pivot points and a lot of rattling and knocking especially if the seat is unoccupied.

Where you had custom work done to the seats I’m curious if the dealer will cover the work? If not, see if you can get a couple of new bushings from your dealer and install them yourself and see if that fixes the issue before replacing everything.

 

[GN4HIR]

Yes, there are two identical white plastic bushings which clip inside the pivot holes on either side on the smaller seat back. One between the seat backs where they fold down and the other near the door behind a plastic cover and is held in with a torx bolt. Both can easily be dislodged when the seat is apart especially if you have had work done and new leather installed.

I like to think of myself as mechanically inclined (that means I ignore instruction sheets and dive in with the largest power tool that will fit) but I haven't yet figured out how you access and disassemble the seatback. It won't help that I mounted a large cabinet/box in the cargo area that makes it difficult to gain access to the underside of the rear seat from the backside. Any tips / guides to how this comes apart? Do I have to pull my box out to do this?

 

[C-Mack]

I like to think of myself as mechanically inclined (that means I ignore instruction sheets and dive in with the largest power tool that will fit) but I haven't yet figured out how you access and disassemble the seatback. It won't help that I mounted a large cabinet/box in the cargo area that makes it difficult to gain access to the underside of the rear seat from the backside. Any tips / guides to how this comes apart? Do I have to pull my box out to do this?

I removed the main torx bolts holding the entire seat frame into the vehicle. That includes, if I recall correctly, the four or five larger security bolts (use security style torx sockets) along the back of the seat under the plastic cover in the cargo area and a few others on either side of the frame by the doors and underneath the seat as well. There area also a couple of plastic covers on the floor near the doors to access some bolts underneath. Once all are loose you can shift the entire backseat forward a few inches in the vehicle to gain access to the pivot pin on the side of the smaller seat back. After you remove that pivot bolt you can move the seat back forward slightly and then pull it out in the direction of the door to remove the other side off of its pivot pin.

It wasn’t a huge job it’s just a bunch of torx bolts to deal with and a little finesse but you don’t have to take the entire backseat out of the vehicle just the seat back in question. Take it slow and steady being careful as you reposition the seat as you don’t want to pinch, scratch or disturb anything underneath it as there is a considerable amount of electrical gubbings in there.

There might be instructions somewhere on this forum from folks who have deleted their rear seats to install a flooring system which could serve as a sort of guide as well.

 

[GN4HIR]

Take it slow and steady being careful

Well.. too late for that.

This morning around 2 a.m. I grabbed a flashlight and some tools and decided I was gonna do this. I will add some photos this evening.
You can disassemble the small seat back without unbolting the seat frame from the body. The plastic cover over the pivot pin on the door side of the seatback requires you remove two plastic rivets

one on the front, one near the bottom on the back. They are a PIA to get out and you will trash them doing it. When done cursing, the plastic cover will lift right off.

You will see a large torx bolt going into the seat. It requires a T50.. but not just any T50, a short one.

The torx bolt isn't hard to break free, but it is a little long and has blue thread locker on it. Once the bolt is out, simply slide that corner of the seatback forward so it is at an angle, then pull the seatback toward you. The fixed pin in the center of the seat does not move and it has a tapered shaft to allow the seat to slide off. Now you can inspect your plastic ring/bushing that sits inside the hole on the seatback.

Note, representative photo,
this is a GM part and may or may not be the same size.

Reassembly is the reverse. As I don't have any extra plastic rivets,, I may use a couple of body panel clips that have 5mm threads

(spares for my BMW motorcycle).

 

[C-Mack]

Well.. too late for that.

This morning around 2 a.m. I grabbed a flashlight and some tools and decided I was gonna do this. I will add some photos this evening.
You can disassemble the small seat back without unbolting the seat frame from the body. The plastic cover over the pivot pin on the door side of the seatback requires you remove two plastic rivets View attachment 7881688 one on the front, one near the bottom on the back. They are a PIA to get out and you will trash them doing it. When done cursing, the plastic cover will lift right off.

You will see a large torx bolt going into the seat. It requires a T50.. but not just any T50, a short one. View attachment 7881692 The torx bolt isn't hard to break free, but it is a little long and has blue thread locker on it. Once the bolt is out, simply slide that corner of the seatback forward so it is at an angle, then pull the seatback toward you. The fixed pin in the center of the seat does not move and it has a tapered shaft to allow the seat to slide off. Now you can inspect your plastic ring/bushing that sits inside the hole on the seatback. View attachment 7881695Note, representative photo,
this is a GM part and may or may not be the same size.

Reassembly is the reverse. As I don't have any extra plastic rivets,, I may use a couple of body panel clips that have 5mm threads View attachment 7881691(spares for my BMW motorcycle).

Way to go… nothing better than a 2 a.m. fix it job!

I did originally try your method with the shorter T50 but on mine the the bolt was thread locked in really good and I couldn’t get enough inward pressure on the bolt with what tools I had to torque it out. Hence moving the seat forward a bit. Glad you got!

If that GM part works and is the correct inner/outer dimensions list the part number if you don’t mind.