Production Model at Sydney 4WD Show

[crimson]

Great insights from all. I'm going to cross fingers and hope that the left foot issue for RHD is somehow resolved before the production model test drive in a few months time. I'd prefer a delay rather than having to wait for the second edition of the Grenadiar.

BTW i dont think this is only a tall person's issue. My wife is 5.3 feet and I'm 5.11 feet. Might be something to do with what we're already used to driving. My x1 feels like I've got almost twice the space

Anyways, I'm an optimist.

 

[DCPU]

It‘s a PTO-2 vehicle.

It may be semantics to some, but to be technically correct it's actually a PTO2, the dash (where/when used) follows the 2 and designates a 3 digit unique reference number for each vehicle.

the rear passenger seats in the PTO-2 are not held in place by any clip or seat fastening device. I think they would rattle away on dirt roads.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

From all the photos I've seen the rear seat back clips into some not insubstantial brackets on either side:

 

[DCPU]

Great insights from all. I'm going to cross fingers and hope that the left foot issue for RHD is somehow resolved before the production model test drive in a few months time.

Maybe the resolution is just for the potential buyer to decide whether it is actually an issue, and if so, of significant enough proportion for them not to purchase.

Following various FB groups and this forum, and there is the complete spectrum of views on this as to whether the issue exists or not. It's very reminiscent of the door/shoulder "issue" in old Defenders.

 

[DCPU]

Hi, from what I heard at the show the design process is still open.

PTO-2 is a major milestone, bugs and mods from PTO-2 will be funnelled into the next vehicle config release. 1.5m km of testing - there are going to be some changes.

That next release (a pre-production vehicle, not a prototype) is the big one though where we’ll see what has been locked in and what we are actually getting as a finished product.

David

The design process may still be open, in as much as if the production manufacturing/assembly throw up issues then things may well be tweeked; but the design process for developing the vehicle for launch itself is complete.

The 1.5m km of testing was completed with the PT-2B prototypes.

This is from an article in Automotive Manufacturing Solutions (March 2022):

"Ineos has been building its own PTO1 pre-production models at Hambach. In total 130 have been made, with the second phase of PTO2 prototype builds due to begin in May ahead of full series production commencing in August 2022."

“Phase two starts in May, which is really to prove out the manufacturing process properly,” Mark Tennant, commercial director at Ineos Automotive told us. “So, starting to move towards the right cycle times, but still leaving gaps as we tweak the equipment. Then we can adjust the manufacturing process to take on the learning as we get more used to building the vehicles.”

Following those, the plant will build the final PTO3 models, which Tennant says will be saleable vehicles although, they most will be used as demonstrators for the global network of dealers and sales agents. Full series production will begin in August, initially to get through the existing book of 15,000 orders, and then to ramp up production to capacity."

 

[OGrid]

It may be semantics to some, but to be technically correct it's actually a PTO2, the dash (where/when used) follows the 2 and designates a 3 digit unique reference number for each vehicle.

View attachment 7793458


Can you explain what you mean by this?

From all the photos I've seen the rear seat back clips into some not insubstantial brackets on either side:
View attachment 7793459

Valid point on the PTO2, my reference to PTO-2 was incorrect.

The seat where the passengers places their backside on, that covers the batteries, is not held in place by any restraint mechanism.

 

[DCPU]

Thanks ~ that's very interesting and new to me.

 

[Igfan]

People who have seen it and feel it is an issue do you think it is aftermarket solvable? As in with something like a 2” lift and changing the bend in the exhaust that causes it?

 

[DCPU]

I would think a 2" body lift would allow you to open up the seam on this and lower the angle accordingly.

I'm less certain there's anything quick and simple to adjusting the exhaust, as its not just exhaust...

 

[emax]

A lift lifts the engine as well and thus the exhaust, I guess?

Wouldn't help much then.

Except that a 'body' lift would only lift the 'body' and not the frame (with the motor). I have however no clue how this would work.

 

[@nd]

just been watching this you tube video, look at the Defender 90 foot well at 2:25 to about 2:27 the foot rest looks very similar

 

[Igfan]

@DCPU nice finds for the images. I’m not knowledgeable enough to understand what the components are in the green box in your second pic. It looks like one pipe to me. What actually is it?

@emax yeah I was thinking the lift takes up the body and engine with it but creates space between the newly raised body and the axles. From the pictures previously shown I was thinking the exhaust pipe made a sort of n-shaped bend to avoid the axle which could be straightened if the body was raised. Having seen DCPU’s pics it doesn’t seem possible to change as surely if they could make the tube slope more to save some foot space they would have already done that.

 

[Igfan]

@@nd: that video is also a nice find. Super hard to judge but to me it looks like in the gren the left side foot rest is closer to the seat.

I didn’t know this was an issue until now. I’ve been in a 2b prototype drive around as a passenger in a Lhd vehicle (way back in March or so) and I didn’t notice it. It was of course only 15 mins or so driving around and without pedals and a steering wheel so hard to judge if it would get annoying on a long drive. I have to say though that all these pics and people saying it it bad has me a bit worried. It definitely looks huge in some of them!

 

[Camskii]

@@nd: that video is also a nice find. Super hard to judge but to me it looks like in the gren the left side foot rest is closer to the seat.

I didn’t know this was an issue until now. I’ve been in a 2b prototype drive around as a passenger in a Lhd vehicle (way back in March or so) and I didn’t notice it. It was of course only 15 mins or so driving around and without pedals and a steering wheel so hard to judge if it would get annoying on a long drive. I have to say though that all these pics and people saying it it bad has me a bit worried. It definitely looks huge in some of them!

I think you will find most of the people complaining about it haven't actually sat in it. I'm 6ft3 and sat in it on Saturday and it was fine. I also had a mate who is taller and wider than me and he also said he didn't see what the issue was either.

 

[DCPU]

just been watching this you tube video, look at the Defender 90 foot well at 2:25 to about 2:27 the foot rest looks very similar

Whilst watching that video I also noticed the same thing:

 

[DCPU]

@DCPU nice finds for the images. I’m not knowledgeable enough to understand what the components are in the green box in your second pic. It looks like one pipe to me. What actually is it?

I believe it is mainly the catalytic converter.

@emax yeah I was thinking the lift takes up the body and engine with it but creates space between the newly raised body and the axles.

A body lift could be done by using spacers and longer bolts on the 8 body mounts. The engine and gearbox would not move.

Lots of things to consider though ~ slack in wires, brake lines, fuel/AdBlue fillers, steering column alignment/bulkhead clearance; raising gear selectors, to name just a few...

 

[grenadierboy]

Good pick-up on Harry's video DCPC.

The Defender's left footrest looks about the same width but it looks much lower (maybe 2 inches) than the Grenadiers, meaning that the left leg sits lower and in a more "relaxed" position.

But then, as Dave says, it will be easier to drive with your left knee whilst eating!

 

[painter]

The Defender's left footrest looks about the same width but it looks much lower (maybe 2 inches) than the Grenadiers, meaning that the left leg sits lower ...

Bingo !
... and no toe wall. Or at least, not one that aligns with the back edge of the brake pedal.

Of course we already know this will work for some. But do we know if Sir Jim has toes ?

 

[OGrid]

I'm less certain there's anything quick and simple to adjusting the exhaust, as its not just exhaust...

Thanks for the two pictures….that really puts things into perspective.

Two words entered my mind when I saw the images you‘d posted - “Oh F***”

 

[Top Cat]

INEOS mentioned that we can "get up close to our rugged off-roader as one of the first people in Australia able to sit in a full production model."...

Full production model?? Have we seen this before or is this the first time in public a production model will be on display?

I plan to attend tomorrow with the family and am happy to field/capture answers or photos for the top 5 burning production model questions we may have from the forum. Please send them through.

For those that attended today, please share pictures, videos and insights.

Fantastic idea!@
Tony from Adelaide here (Mar23 Build)
Really interested in the ability to fit a second tank as I work right out north and need it. I have followed the threads on this but a production model may be different
Thanks!!
TC

 

[DenisM]

And the navigation defaults to “Harry’s cafe de wheels” when you select home.

Ahh! Stu! I'm presuming you're displaying "Local knowledge"!! Then you must know that it depends on the hour of the early morn and how hungry you are after a 'hard day's night'... You must visit "downunder" again!!