Production Model at Sydney 4WD Show

[stickshifter]

The foot space on the right hand side is going to be a problem for many. The foot rest may not impede the function of the pedals (that’s a pretty low bar to cross) but many drivers in a RHD will be miserable on a long trip. I live where we have LHD but I know my wife will hate this as a passenger. Our 4Runner has amazing leg room for the passenger. I’d never give up the driver’s seat on a long trip. I’m going to reserve judgment until I go for a test drive in October, but this looks bad right now.

 

[emax]

As a passenger, you can move the seat backwards as you wish. So it's less of a problem for the passenger than for the driver.

 

[stickshifter]

As a passenger, you can move the seat backwards as you wish. So it's less of a problem for the passenger than for the driver.

You don't know my wife...

 

[emax]

But I know mine ...
(She at least lets me believe that)

 

[OGrid]

Test only in the sense of proving the assembly processes ~ at this stage, unless there's a major flaw, then I'd expect the design process to have been frozen.

Hi, from what I heard at the show the design process is still open.

PTO-2 is a major milestone, bugs and mods from PTO-2 will be funnelled into the next vehicle config release. 1.5m km of testing - there are going to be some changes.

That next release (a pre-production vehicle, not a prototype) is the big one though where we’ll see what has been locked in and what we are actually getting as a finished product.

David

 

[cheswick]

Consider for a moment the painful, slow and bumper bumper trip into the show today. I don't think I would have enjoyed the same wait in a Grenadiar.

No wait if you got there at 8.30, the early bird gets the worm

 

[emax]

from what I heard at the show the design process is still open.

Where have you heard that?

 

[OGrid]

Where have you heard that?

A senior rep at the Ineos stand.

Makes sense though. Who would go from prototype to full production without another vehicle/s.

Earlier articles this year referenced a PTO-3 would arrive on the scene. From the discussion at the show on Friday it’s not a PTO-3, it’s more a pre-prod vehicle that’s up next.

 

[emax]

It doesn't make sense to me that a production tryout (PTO ...) should be anything other than something that was decided to get produced. After all, it's not a design tryout. This is to optimize production and thus a PTO3 was nothing unusual. But production can only be optimized if the design got frozen.

But we will see.

 

[grenadierboy]

So - even though the BMW X5 uses the same engine with the same exhaust manifold set-up, it does NOT have this left leg footrest issue for RHD models.

It must be the design of the grenadier chassis.

If it really is an issue then it seems incredible that;
a) all the millions of miles of testing has failed to highlight this; and,
b) the exhaust manifold design cannot be slightly adjusted for RHD models

From what I have read on this issue - it seems to impact taller drivers more.

Is Sir Jim tall ?

 

[OGrid]

“… the last prototype variant, before production-ready Grenadiers make it to the line, is PTO3. These pre-production units include “lessons learned” and will be used for road testing and other endeavors.” - GearJunkie, March 2022.

The article is one of the better ones at outlining the dev and testing process. Ignore the dates in the article, though it is a nice reminder of how much things have slipped since March this year.

INEOS Grenadier: It's Real, It's Burly, and It's Coming to America

It is possible to build a modern rugged body-on-frame 4x4 SUV, and the INEOS Grenadier is that vehicle.

gearjunkie.com

 

[emax]

Trust me, PTO means Production TryOut as I have written before.

But hope dies last, so you may believe what you want.

 

[OGrid]

Trust me, PTO means Production TryOut as I have written before.

But hope dies last, believe what you want.

I’m not doubting the acronym’s three letters. There will be another vehicle/s post PTO-2 before customer production.

 

[COSTA]

To be very clear on what is uncomfortable, see the highlighted picture (taken by another).

When I naturally rested my foot, my toes could feel contact with the black wall. It started to give me aeroplane foot cramp syndrome, as it reminded me of being stuck on a long flight with little or no room for my legs or feet to move. I don't know if its just me, but the force of the wall against my toes, makes me want to move and stretch them more.

Consider for a moment the painful, slow and bumper bumper trip into the show today. I don't think I would have enjoyed the same wait in a Grenadiar.


View attachment 7793396

Hey guys,

These are my feet and I was trying to take an unbiased photo. I think it depends how tall you are and what you're accustomed to.
I had no issues with steering wheel clearance, it's entirely about restricted leg movement only. (Although I love the comment about steering with your knee while eating a meat pie)

My wifes car is a current model Tiguan and i always feel cramped driving it with a babyseat behind me but if you want to stretch your left leg out you can just slide it forward under the dash board.

The Grenadier firewall has an upturn directly behind the footrest as you can see so you can't do this.

I've seen comments like "I brake with my left foot so I'll be sweet" well guess what,if you're wearing boots you'll likely be rubbing your feet together.

Personally I'm unlikely to be hitting hundreds of kms of corrugated dirt roads with a 6ft man sitting behind me so I don't think it will particularly bother me.

Despite this design I will proceed with my Trialmaster order. I was absolutely impressed by the look and feel of the rest of the vehicle.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

PERFECT, INEOS has thought of the Australian driver well beyond our initial expectations.
We all know Aussies eat their meat pie / maccas whilst steering with their left knee, now INEOS have built in a feature to make that even easier.
AWESOME.

And the navigation defaults to “Harry’s cafe de wheels” when you select home.

 

[AnD3rew]

No wait if you got there at 8.30, the early bird gets the worm

Yep, did that yesterday, straight in. Saw the crazy multi km line to get in on my way out and pitied those poor bastards

 

[Davman]

From what I have read on this issue - it seems to impact taller drivers more.

Is Sir Jim tall ?

Yes I thought of this too.
Sir Jim is quite a tall person, and he will be driving the right hand drive vehicle.
If this was a great problem in long term driving, I think he would of had them do something about it.
He is putting his personal name on the vehicle and his reputation on the line.
I cannot see him approving this - if it’s an obvious problem for tall people.

They wouldn’t be building it this way if there wasn’t a good, necessary reason for doing so - and I have faith that the best overall design compromise has been achieved.

 

[wakeo]

I also managed to get out to the show this morning and have taken and uploaded as many photos as possible, even the truck container that the prototype arrived in!. (it was air freighted over and was delayed by 2 weeks itself)

The mirror images saved having to crawl all underneath and shows some serious protection of the diffs etc (whether these are standard I do not know.

Justin Hocevar was incredibly helpful and was happy to discuss many things. He did confirm that if the winch option is selected then the springs that are built in to the car has a different spring rate to accomodate the extra mass of the winch. This prototype had one fitted and was very hard to detect other than the dyneema rope coming out through the hawse fairlead.

As for the left foot I am 6'2' with Size 13 feet and did not find it uncomfortable although I take the point of some other comments as to whether being able to stretch the left leg could be compromised.

Having asked the question on when would the car arrive in Aus after say the built was complete he mentioned up to 80 days purely due to the lack of vehicle carrying ships on the water post covid. I have a January 23 build date so looks like taking delivery in April sometime for me.

Shale Blue (which is what I have ordered), was also confirmed that it was the only colour that was causing issues at the moment although by that stage it should not be a problem.

For those in other states Justin confirmed they will be on the road and will be in Adelaide and Brisbane etc for when there is a similar show on offer in those cities.

 

[IG Pop]

Not sure this article from February contributes further but it gives a bit of background on PTO production in Hambach

ForTwo to 4x4: How Smart factory became home to Ineos Grenadier | Autocar

In 12 months of hard graft, Ineos has upgraded Smart’s Hambach factory for production of its Grenadier off-roader. We drop by

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[DCPU]

Yes I thought of this too.
Sir Jim is quite a tall person, and he will be driving the right hand drive vehicle.