No manual trans, on purpose?

[Roach]

BTW, I suspect many of you remember when manual was standard and auto was a pay option.

 

[Disco Dave]

When we go camping, at the termination of really tough tracks, there are penalty shots (vodka etc) handed out at the end of the day. The following misdemeanours accrue a penalty shot
1. Stalling your vehicle
2. Having your vehicle require extraction
3. Having your vehicle require winching (2 shots)
4. Complete deflation of a tyre.
5. Driver of any vehicle with an auto tranny.

Why No.5? This penalty is required because a manual is much more likely to suffer penalties for the previous 4.

I have spent 15 years in manuals and 20 years in autos. I recently spent 2 hours driving a 70 series Toyota V8 diesel on a tough track. All I could think of was - It doesn’t need to be this hard or this tiring!

 

[Mountain4x4]

I kind of like this, you Ozzies have all the great ideas. Next trip, Ozzie rules!

 

[Mountain4x4]

I have many, many thousands of miles off road, and broken everything you can dream of at some point. A lot of what we do in the US is much harder then most over seas trails, and that may be part of the problem. When you are navigating furniture size boulders, a stick shift will make your life hell and the count down to major breakage is on. On easy, backcountry tracks, and lacking anything like major snow, a manual is fine. Try a manual on the Rubicon and you will be in the hurt house for example.

 

[Norb-TX]

Can you push start an auto, I think not. Manuals for the win!

 

[Jiman01]

I would have preferred a manual as well. First automatic I owned was in 2017. Second is the ND I own now. Every other vehicle since the 1980s has been a manual.

 

[evomind]

Guys, its not about what's "better" or "more reliable," its about the engagement between the driver and the vehicle.
I realize that in this day of age only about 5% of you will understand this.
That said I know many off roaders that prefer the control of a manual trans in tough situations.

In any case there will not be a manual trans in the Gren for better or for worse.

 

[AnD3rew]

Can you push start an auto, I think not. Manuals for the win!

Try push starting a modern Diesel manual, good luck.

 

[AnD3rew]

Guys, its not about what's "better" or "more reliable," its about the engagement between the driver and the vehicle.
I realize that in this day of age only about 5% of you will understand this.
That said I know many off roaders that prefer the control of a manual trans in tough situations.

In any case there will not be a manual trans in the Gren for better or for worse.

I love the engagement of the manual in my E-Type, not interested in it in my 4wd.

 

[Mountain4x4]

Modern manuals usually cannot be bump started, even if you are lucky enough to be in the perfect spot. These days battery jumpers are so compact and easy to use we keep them in each vehicle. If I owned a Defender, I would keep 2 since your battery dies each day at camp. I agree a manual adds massive challenge, which some seek out. But eventualy even the most hardened stick shift drivers get tired of getting beat to snot in the hard stuff and end up with an Auto. And for sure, Autos have become better and better. Where as a manual may need pulled between 20k-60K for a new clutch with hard off road use, a properly built Auto can go forever. With the upgraded torque convertor Ineos is using the ZF should be fine. Probably a little disconcerting that Ram has never used a quality transmission, but even they are using a ZF as of 2019. ( my 2018 had a boat anchor)

 

[Tom109]

Guys, its not about what's "better" or "more reliable," its about the engagement between the driver and the vehicle.
I realize that in this day of age only about 5% of you will understand this.
That said I know many off roaders that prefer the control of a manual trans in tough situations.

In any case there will not be a manual trans in the Gren for better or for worse.

There is also a very real difference between performance/efficiency and fun/engagement.

 

[Tinerfeño]

Modern manuals usually cannot be bump started,

Why? How the engine knows what's rotating it?
Luckily I have an old manuals. I have even winch started them when I had a starter motor/motor wiring failure.

Where as a manual may need pulled between 20k-60K for a new clutch

Who is making so poor clutches?

Auto can go forever.

Not yet seen. ZF 6HP26 gearboxes have been replaced/reconditioned starting at 250' km but typically around 350' km. I know couple that have been run over 400' km. Perhaps this is forever for those that change car every 3 years ....

 

[evomind]

I love the engagement of the manual in my E-Type, not interested in it in my 4wd.

I agree but I understand that there are others that prefer a manual in their 4wd.
That doesnt make them "wrong."

 

[Mountain4x4]

I think its electronic nannies that make bump starting a modern car hard, someone can jump in here that knows more. To be fair I never had a 4x4 clutch last over 20,000 miles, so I am being a little over optimistic. Of course, if you have the right gearing a manual can be more tolerable, say 4:1 - 6:1 t/case reduction, which would also help to save the clutches. But at 2:5-1 it wont be fun.

 

[Tinerfeño]

I have bump started electronically controlled engines up to 2007 models. Possibly also later.

My 200Tdi clucth worked up to 480' km. And it didn't fail completely, I still could drive the car by changing gears by adjusting engine revs correctly.

 

[Tom109]

I think its electronic nannies that make bump starting a modern car hard, someone can jump in here that knows more. To be fair I never had a 4x4 clutch last over 20,000 miles, so I am being a little over optimistic. Of course, if you have the right gearing a manual can be more tolerable, say 4:1 - 6:1 t/case reduction, which would also help to save the clutches. But at 2:5-1 it wont be fun.

This is also contributes to why most manufacturers have dropped manuals - to difficult to implement AEB to get top safety ratings.

 

[Tinerfeño]

Oh dear ... just stop the engine.

 

[Roach]

I believe that bumping a petrol car is still possible given the appropriate circumstances. Diesel is a bit harder...you need enough battery power for the glow plug and enough of a path/approach that you can use a gear that will work.

 

[AnD3rew]

I agree but I understand that there are others that prefer a manual in their 4wd.
That doesnt make them "wrong."

If it’s just a preference than of course they aren’t wrong, if you argue manual performs better offroad, then in my opinion that’s not correct at least on an overall basis.

 

[MurphyMurph]

Likely added engineering cost, time and overhead was too high to spread across all buyers to recover vs the handful that would want a manual. You can only spend so much $ on engineering (physical mounting, computer, engine tune, additional testing, etc) and then someone needs to support and stock all the parts globally for a different transmission. I have no doubt they did the market research and the volume wasn’t there to justify. The US is reportedly their largest market and only 6% of vehicles sold in the states are manual (low demand)

I’m one of that 6%. But right now I have all autos and I feel like my soul is slowly dying.