Letter to Lynne Calder

[IslandFalconer]

She did give me some more detail on the ADAS system. In The US the latest cars simply won’t have the ADAS system, in other markets where it is required there will be an off button.

So on MY2025 cars it’s already done.
There are two MY24 variants. On MY24.1 (the early ones, apparently the majority of US vehicles) there is still a wait for the update.
On MY24.2 The fix is already available and dealers can apply it now.

This explains why some people have had the fix and others haven’t.
The difference was due to a cyber security update in the EU which was mandatory and the 24.1 cars have different hardware to the 24.2 cars. This is why its not a simple across the board update.. She seems to think that it’s coming soon though. So hopefully not much longer to wait.

Again “soon” is not a word in the Ineos Vocabulary. Until it’s made available, and until we as owners have the ability to service our vehicles it’s all just more of the same promises that have been made. At what point do they take action. As I said I commend Mrs Calder for speaking with you, but I have no reason to believe anything Ineos says. It’s all just a few more months, it’s always the same. My experience with customer service is also the same, you call CS, they send an email to the dealership, nothing gets resolved. There is no “customer service” it’s a call center. They just forward you right back to the dealer you can’t get service from.

I’m just looking for action not Words.

And Tom thank you, you’ve done a lot for probably no real compensation for your time and effort. I’d like to thank you for your effort. And if you’re ever in PEI stop in for a lobster and beer man.

But when it comes to Ineos until I see action I’m not going to hold my breadth.

 

[Tom D]

I should note at this point that I think if you have ADAS fitted you have to turn it off each trip, I think.. That was the impression I got anyway.

 

[ADVAW8S]

I should note at this point that I think if you have ADAS fitted you have to turn it off each trip, I think.. That was the impression I got anyway.

Here is a tool to transcribe

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[IslandFalconer]

I should note at this point that I think if you have ADAS fitted you have to turn it off each trip, I think.. That was the impression I got anyway.

Oh yeah in my truck that’s 20-25 times a day. And then it crashes car play or freezes the head unit. It’s totally ridiculous. Sometimes FAV works sometimes it doesn’t. It’s a total joke. Whoever they hired to implement the user interface was not very good at their job

 

[JGB5]

I have listened back to the call, there’s a lot of information in there, we spoke for an hour and 40 minutes. I still can’t figure out how to transcribe it though which is annoying. I’ll keep working on that. And then post any major points that were missing in the letter..

Before you go any further, be sure you have Lynn Calder's written approval to post a transcription of your conversation online. Publishing transcripts without permission could lead to violations of the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and country specific laws. It's safest for both of you if you paraphrase with a disclaimer and not publish what was said word for word.

 

[Trialmaster]

Well you got more than me Tom....I was just asked (Told in my opinion) to remove my social media by them and I didn't say one lie either, it'll be going back up again very soon thats for sure with more videos to come, I could make my own channel

No manufacturer likes negative publicity. I guess it must guilt if they "asked/told" you to remove it. I would have complied as long as they complied to my request too.

 

[Annee]

No manufacturer likes negative publicity. I guess it must guilt if they "asked/told" you to remove it. I would have complied as long as they complied to my request too.

They said it showed model grenadiers simulating a crash, it didn’t at all…..it’ll be up again before long so you can see for yourselves.

 

[Tom D]

No manufacturer likes negative publicity. I guess it must guilt if they "asked/told" you to remove it. I would have complied as long as they complied to my request too.

I have already agreed with her that I’ll just be answering in my own words not hers. I just want the transcript for my own notes. We talked for a long time and she covered a lot, I can’t do it all from memory and I don't want to get anything wrong.

 

[Motorvat]

The UK edition of Autocar 30th April includes their conclusion on 3 months of life with a Grenadier

As one of the owners that contacted them and directed them to the forum I was delighted to read their conclusion that owners love the car but are experiencing difficulties with dealers and after sales etc. Hopefully respected press comments like these may push Lynn to actually do something

 

[Tom D]

I am confident that she is actually doing something.
I think that they spent so much energy getting the first production vehicles out that they didn’t have the bandwidth for the after sales. Now that production is running smoothly they are sorting it out. I bet it still takes them a while, but in 12 months think it will be a very different picture across the board.
Some things will probably be sorted out long before that too.

 

[DaneJa]

She did give me some more detail on the ADAS system. In The US the latest cars simply won’t have the ADAS system, in other markets where it is required there will be an off button.

So on MY2025 cars it’s already done.

Unfortunately this is not true. My MY25 has all the ADAS irritations.

 

[Tom D]

Unfortunately this is not true. My MY25 has all the ADAS irritations.

Are you unable to turn it off?

 

[DaneJa]

Are you unable to turn it off?

In the same way as MY24: ADAS sub menu (or favorite if saved) after each start.

 

[IslandFalconer]

It’s all frankly BS. There is no ADAS fix beyond manually turn it off or own a 2023.
It’s more creative wording from Ineos. It doesn’t take a year to set one parameter to save the setting. The speed change notification right below the ADAS notification stays off once set to off. It is literally one hexadecimal line of code to alter. Whatever the reason for this it’s well beyond “will be ready in a few months” it’s been a year! Like I said. Unless there’s action it’s all just corporate speak. If Mrs Calder truly was invested there would be actual tangible targets not “a couple months” I drove a 2025 and it’s the same. I’m frankly tired of the “omissions”

 

[Rok_Dr]

So here’s Lynn Calder’s response.
I talked to her on the phone for well over an hour this morning and picked her brains on many of the issues covered in the letter. I recorded the call for my own benefit and will make a transcript of it so I can add more details to the points in the letter. I don’t have time to do that right now however. I will not be posting the recording or the transcript before you ask!

What I will say is that I was impressed with Lynn and her overall attitude. She has been very honest in the letter as you will see, She was not afraid to admit where failings had been made and I believe that she is committed to making improvements. I think I’ll just let you guys read the letter and ask questions here. I can then answer where I can from the points Lynn made in our conversation. There’s some very positive stuff and also some things where work still needs to be done. Some of my questions she didn’t know the answer to and she is going to go away and research them and get back to me. She is also amenable to a Q&A between the forum and her plus members of her team, in order to answer specific questions that we may have.

So to sum things up as I see them;
The manual is coming but not as interactive as first promised.
The ADAS system has fixes, some are already out but it depends on which model year you have. Its coming. Latest models have an ‘OFF’ button.
New service agents have been found and will be announced soon. (In the UK anyway) and I think also in the ROW..
Customer service is being improved.
There’s a lot more but I need to check back over the recording..

We even talked about the fusilier and potential new grenadier variants… Although I think she was getting sick of me by the end LOL.

Well done Tom and thank you for posting her letter.

I for one will be happy with a pdf hard copy manual (in A4) which covers most repairs and disassembly procedures that a normal owner would want to do and guider remote area independent mechanics. plus being able to reset the service counter and tyre pressure monitor positions.

I look forward to the next year and real progress.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Commodore]

So here’s Lynn Calder’s response.
I talked to her on the phone for well over an hour this morning and picked her brains on many of the issues covered in the letter. I recorded the call for my own benefit and will make a transcript of it so I can add more details to the points in the letter. I don’t have time to do that right now however. I will not be posting the recording or the transcript before you ask!

What I will say is that I was impressed with Lynn and her overall attitude. She has been very honest in the letter as you will see, She was not afraid to admit where failings had been made and I believe that she is committed to making improvements. I think I’ll just let you guys read the letter and ask questions here. I can then answer where I can from the points Lynn made in our conversation. There’s some very positive stuff and also some things where work still needs to be done. Some of my questions she didn’t know the answer to and she is going to go away and research them and get back to me. She is also amenable to a Q&A between the forum and her plus members of her team, in order to answer specific questions that we may have.

So to sum things up as I see them;
The manual is coming but not as interactive as first promised.
The ADAS system has fixes, some are already out but it depends on which model year you have. Its coming. Latest models have an ‘OFF’ button.
New service agents have been found and will be announced soon. (In the UK anyway) and I think also in the ROW..
Customer service is being improved.
There’s a lot more but I need to check back over the recording..

We even talked about the fusilier and potential new grenadier variants… Although I think she was getting sick of me by the end LOL.

Tom, Thank you for the effort. This is a great response. Her tone seems genuine and I do believe that the software issues will get sorted and we will get a pdf covering typical DIY serviceable systems. What they have accomplished is actually fairly incredible even with the short comings we have gone through.

Maybe suggest that she send a quarterly update to the forum or include monitoring this forum in someone’s job responsibilities. Ford has had someone on the Bronco forum who is there to solve issues owners are having. They never really post the but rather ask for the owner to DM them details then they get involved with the servicing dealer. That would go a long way to building a relationship with the owners.

 

[Tom D]

Tom, Thank you for the effort. This is a great response. Her tone seems genuine and I do believe that the software issues will get sorted and we will get a pdf covering typical DIY serviceable systems. What they have accomplished is actually fairly incredible even with the short comings we have gone through.

Maybe suggest that she send a quarterly update to the forum or include monitoring this forum in someone’s job responsibilities. Ford has had someone on the Bronco forum who is there to solve issues owners are having. They never really post the but rather ask for the owner to DM them details then they get involved with the servicing dealer. That would go a long way to building a relationship with the owners.

She has already said she will come back to me in the middle of May with further info…

 

[Chris Harrison]

Well done Tom, you have obviously built a good relationship with her which will benefit us owners and Ineos alike. She comes across to me as hard working, completely committed, very capable and serious about addressing the issues raised. I am re-assured about my key issue of dealer servicing availability. The recognition that the model was flawed means they have diagnosed the problem and are in the process of fixing it. I am very encouraged. We are fortunate in the sense that Ratcliffe has put one of his best people in to run IA and we should give her our full support so that she can help us. Well done again, much appreciated.

 

[Zimm]

Honestly to me manuals are useless if I can’t access the electrical system to run tests. If I can’t reset my own service indicator and if I can’t get parts. The ADAS has been promised for almost a year with still more promises of “just a few moths” meanwhile I can walk out to my garage and work on all my BMW’s and access all the test and service options. Ineos sold this vehicle as serviceable but didn’t design it that way. So her promises amount to little at this point. It’s fair to say I think people want actions. The letter really reads like corporate speak and very lawyer approved

Of course it was. I live in an "all party consent" state for legally admissible conversations and there's a reason why I call people back on some emails, and it isn't for a more personal touch.