Letter to Lynne Calder

[Tom D]

I mentioned your case to her specifically. She is taking that feedback to the team developing the manual.

 

[Annee]

Well you got more than me Tom....I was just asked (Told in my opinion) to remove my social media by them and I didn't say one lie either, it'll be going back up again very soon thats for sure with more videos to come, I could make my own channel

 

[Max]

Here's a good title..."Annee Get Your Gun"

In all seriousness we have a great group with such diversity...some sitting on their hands and waiting for the future, lookout your fingers can go numb and it takes over the rest of your body or those who took a leap of faith not without issues and what I take from all I have read is a positive stance leaning forward...Thanks for being able to extract it Tom.

 

[IslandFalconer]

She has promised to come back to me on a few issues, She will come back with more info on the Manual by the 16th. So we should know more in a couple of weeks.

I stressed the importance of having parts diagrams for maintenance and accident repairs, she took that on board, so thats hopefully coming. I also asked about fault code reading and she is going to speak to the tech teams about that, She doesn’t have any issues with aftermarket suppliers offering readers from a commercial perspective, i.e. they aren’t trying to protect dealer only servicing. Her concern was more technical: - Allowing non IA providers to screw up the cars systems. Given that brands like AUTEL support just about every manufacturer out there I don't think this will prove too much of an issue. We’ll see where it goes.

Honestly to me manuals are useless if I can’t access the electrical system to run tests. If I can’t reset my own service indicator and if I can’t get parts. The ADAS has been promised for almost a year with still more promises of “just a few moths” meanwhile I can walk out to my garage and work on all my BMW’s and access all the test and service options. Ineos sold this vehicle as serviceable but didn’t design it that way. So her promises amount to little at this point. It’s fair to say I think people want actions. The letter really reads like corporate speak and very lawyer approved

 

[IslandFalconer]

Well you got more than me Tom....I was just asked (Told in my opinion) to remove my social media by them and I didn't say one lie either, it'll be going back up again very soon thats for sure with more videos to come, I could make my own channel

Did they tell you to stop publicly calling them out for their awful service?

 

[Max]

So her promises amount to little at this point.

It is all Pre Lynn...She didn't make the promise but did say they may have bitten off more than they could chew[very corporate lawyer words there] and they are going to find ways to fix very complex issues[in my words]. I hope that is the case even though my concerns with the vehicle are minuscule compared to the positive vibes from just sitting in it...good luck and happy motoring in the future.

 

[Znarfgh]

Thank you, Tom, for your efforts.

From my perspective, a 3D manual would be FANTASTIC but I would be more than happy with a workshop manual like the ones I have for my Land Rover Discovery and my Jeep Grand Cherokee (now sold). The Land Rover manual was a pdf document which was used by the dealers themselves and the Grand Cherokee manual I purchased online for $10.

I can't see the complexity with Ineos providing something similar. My Jeep had plenty of ECU's and my Land Rover had an ECM, a BCM and SLABS electronic modules and I have information on those.

The dealers have access to this information, and we don't even though it was a part of the core Ineos promise to its prospective customers.

I very much look forward to the 16th and what comes out of that.

 

[AngusMacG]

Tom, thank you for your efforts on this! I find Lynn’s response a bit predictable with a dash of honesty/openness. I hope your conversation was a bit more fruitful on my latter point.

My suggestion would be a Zoom meeting(s) set up directly with forum members. These can be set up by region since a single call might be difficult to coordinate among the various time zones

 

[ryket]

Well done Tom and thank you for getting Ineos HQ engaged with the community. Calder's response seems pretty genuine (or as genuine as possible for corporate comms) and I don't think she would commit to ongoing Q&A sessions if she wasn't serious about delivering on promises.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

 

[255/85]

I find interactive repair manual a bit of learning curve anyway. who wants to have to buy a starlink to get the manual in the middle of siberia. I wish it was a set of paperbacks my boomer ass could read and stuff in a box.

A hard copy would be my first choice too but I'll be happy with a .pdf that's permanently available online and formatted for 8.5" x 11". That way I can tell a mechanic where to go for instruction (page and paragraph) or it could be printed out and kept on the shelf - or even enlarged to 11" x 17" for older eyes.

Despite Ms. Calder's position within Ineos there is, as others have said, a genuine tone to the letter/response. It doesn't do the company any good to string the buying public along. They're too small to succeed long term with that tactic and I don't think they're dumb enough to think they can. If she delivers what's desperately needed I will be much more hopeful about the Grenadier becoming the premier next-generation offroad/overland/utility vehicle than I have been as of late. Fingers crossed!

 

[Annee]

Did they tell you to stop publicly calling them out for their awful service?

Haha…no, they took umbrage with a video I put up playing with the model Grenadiers in a very empty showroom and closed service centre, I just need to wait a few days as I have my own team looking over things and then I’ll put it back up along with more videos esp of me chatting about my own experience of a truly fantastic vehicle that I love but the downside too.

 

[Annee]

I should be taking this all very personally as remember when I wrote to Lynn and Jim with questions asking for a get to gather ? I simply had that email thrown over to Tom Raker in customer service, he’s no longer there, very decent chap in my opinion. Tom Tom, Wherefore art thou.

 

[Tazzieman]

I still think that actually getting a response from a CEO is excellent.
CEOs in general (in my experience) are aloof delegators.
I have no doubt from what I've read and watched re Lyn that she is passionate , invested in and really wants the project to succeed long term.
IMO she's not just your average CEO.

 

[ADVAW8S]

I still think that actually getting a response from a CEO is excellent.
CEOs in general (in my experience) are aloof delegators.
I have no doubt from what I've read and watched re Lyn that she is passionate , invested in and really wants the project to succeed long term.
IMO she's not just your average CEO.

Watch her interviews and then read the letter. She wrote it, it has her cadence and manner of speaking. Either that or AI which takes all your inputs and writing style to craft an eerily similar response. I use AI to craft a lot of my emails now and it's scary.

 

[Tazzieman]

Watch her interviews and then read the letter. She wrote it, it has her cadence and manner of speaking. Either that or AI which takes all your inputs and writing style to craft an eerily similar response. I use AI to craft a lot of my emails now and it's scary.

I resolve never to use AI. I shall remain a crusty old dinosaur until I'm composted.
Real intelligence is akin to Neil Young singing "My my , hey hey , Rock & Roll will never die"

 

[Tom D]

I have listened back to the call, there’s a lot of information in there, we spoke for an hour and 40 minutes. I still can’t figure out how to transcribe it though which is annoying. I’ll keep working on that. And then post any major points that were missing in the letter..

 

[IslandFalconer]

I have listened back to the call, there’s a lot of information in there, we spoke for an hour and 40 minutes. I still can’t figure out how to transcribe it though which is annoying. I’ll keep working on that. And then post any major points that were missing in the letter..

To me it will come down to actions, not words, I’m tired of the ADAS, the inability to service my vehicle, there’s no dealer within a days drive I was sold that I could do my own service and repairs. None of that is true and nothing has changed. Just more corporate speak. “2 more months for software” how many times have we been given that line? My dealer has been saying 2 months for a year now.

 

[Tom D]

She did give me some more detail on the ADAS system. In The US the latest cars simply won’t have the ADAS system, in other markets where it is required there will be an off button.

So on MY2025 cars it’s already done.
There are two MY24 variants. On MY24.1 (the early ones, apparently the majority of US vehicles) there is still a wait for the update.
On MY24.2 The fix is already available and dealers can apply it now.

This explains why some people have had the fix and others haven’t.
The difference was due to a cyber security update in the EU which was mandatory and the 24.1 cars have different hardware to the 24.2 cars. This is why its not a simple across the board update.. She seems to think that it’s coming soon though. So hopefully not much longer to wait.

 

[Mdubs]

Tom, great job with the letter and all the other work! It’s easy to complain but you took the time to take action and I’m grateful. Personally, I’m very impressed with the response. I just think it’s so cool that the CEO of a major company would not only respond, but promise to take action and suggestions as well as plan for more personal communication in the future. This makes me even more satisfied with my decision to buy my truck.

 

[C-Mack]

She did give me some more detail on the ADAS system. In The US the latest cars simply won’t have the ADAS system, in other markets where it is required there will be an off button.

So on MY2025 cars it’s already done.
There are two MY24 variants. On MY24.1 (the early ones, apparently the majority of US vehicles) there is still a wait for the update.
On MY24.2 The fix is already available and dealers can apply it now.

This explains why some people have had the fix and others haven’t.
The difference was due to a cyber security update in the EU which was mandatory and the 24.1 cars have different hardware to the 24.2 cars. This is why its not a simple across the board update.. She seems to think that it’s coming soon though. So hopefully not much longer to wait.

Sounds encouraging… is there a production date or VIN number range for what determines if your vehicle is a 24.1 or 24.2? Also, did Lynn mention any updates for service reminder resets or TPMS fixes? I can live with ADAS having developed the muscle memory to turn it off each time but certainly would prefer to permanently turn it off.