Letter to Lynne Calder

[Max]

this will be interesting.

Just to see if she stirs up the dust on a track laid before her arrival will be interesting. I wouldn't mind betting that the fly spanners and workshop manual hit the floor running into the marketing room before a great deal of conversation..Headlines without much headspace.

 

[Zimm]

Just to see if she stirs up the dust on a track laid before her arrival will be interesting. I wouldn't mind betting that the fly spanners and workshop manual hit the floor running into the marketing room before a great deal of conversation..Headlines without much headspace.

If shes writing a statement, I'm thinking it's gone back and forth to legal for red ink about 6 times already. We're now well beyond the art of saying something, without actually saying anything, but we've got a post above where a guy is saying he's been saving all correspondence and advertising for a suit hes T'ing up. Assuming they take that seriously, what's she gonna say that won't invite teeth in the ass later?

This is gonna be interesting.

 

[Jeremy996]

...........We're now well beyond the art of saying something, without actually saying anything, but we've got a post above where a guy is saying he's been saving all correspondence and advertising for a suit hes T'ing up. ...........

This is gonna be interesting.

That would be me, but there is an easy way out - release the manual/parts books. And they have still got time.
Going to law in the UK is a tricky business; the costs can easily spiral out of control and contingent fee agreements are not that common. For consumer law matters I have litigation insurance.

As for dealers worried about their margins. I, like most home hobbyists don't have a 2 or 4 post lift, I'm over 60, changing engines or gearboxes is not an ambition, I just want the assurance that routine servicing and some modifications are done to a quality, not a book time. They will probably still see the vehicle annually! (Although at this rate, I have no idea where!?)

 

[Tom D]

I would agree that for many the idea of undertaking even servicing let alone major work is a non starter anyway. But there are those of us who want to do that and also who bought on the promise of a workshop manual.
Plus if the manual and service software is widely available then you can always have your local mechanic carry out the work….

 

[Zimm]

That would be me, but there is an easy way out - release the manual/parts books. And they have still got time.
Going to law in the UK is a tricky business; the costs can easily spiral out of control and contingent fee agreements are not that common. For consumer law matters I have litigation insurance.

As for dealers worried about their margins. I, like most home hobbyists don't have a 2 or 4 post lift, I'm over 60, changing engines or gearboxes is not an ambition, I just want the assurance that routine servicing and some modifications are done to a quality, not a book time. They will probably still see the vehicle annually! (Although at this rate, I have no idea where!?)

I'm not disagreeing with anything you say. I'm merely pointing out, your comment has been read, amongst others elsewhere I'm sure, and they will be reflected in the release.

 

[Greasemonkey]

I'm no advertising expert, but what sounds better:
"We had a problem with our Ineos on the CSR, but we were able to fix it ourselves using the workshop manuals."
or
"We had a problem with the Ineos on the CSR, and the recovery cost us $15,000."

 

[Tom D]

Ok.

I have a reply from Lynn Calder. She has taken the time to write a lengthy and candid response herself which I appreciate. In her covering email she suggested that we talked on the phone to discuss the next steps which I will try and arrange. So to make sure that I have fully understood what they are planning and ask some further questions I will not post the response until I have spoken with Lynn.
Hopefully that will be soon.

 

[Cheshire cat]

Ok.

I have a reply from Lynn Calder. She has taken the time to write a lengthy and candid response herself which I appreciate. In her covering email she suggested that we talked on the phone to discuss the next steps which I will try and arrange. So to make sure that I have fully understood what they are planning and ask some further questions I will not post the response until I have spoken with Lynn.
Hopefully that will be soon.

A very measured and well considered way forward.

 

[Trialmaster]

Ok.

I have a reply from Lynn Calder. She has taken the time to write a lengthy and candid response herself which I appreciate. In her covering email she suggested that we talked on the phone to discuss the next steps which I will try and arrange. So to make sure that I have fully understood what they are planning and ask some further questions I will not post the response until I have spoken with Lynn.
Hopefully that will be soon.

Thanks for the update Tom. Great to know that Lynne is happy to talk and hopefully will allow you to share her thoughts when appropriate.

 

[MattA]

The chat on the phone should be a pod cast, the advertising was public, the promotion and promises were public, the chat about the product should be public
She should have no issue with that if she is being honest and upfront with what they plan to do

 

[Tom D]

The chat on the phone should be a pod cast, the advertising was public, the promotion and promises were public, the chat about the product should be public

To be fair she suggested that. I have dm’d Krabby and Stu to see if they are interested in doing that. So I think that’s a real possibility.

 

[Chris Harrison]

Well done Tom and great to hear that she is engaging with you. The opening paragraphs of your letter I could have written myself; I too am really hoping that IA flourish for all the obvious reasons. The two things that concern me most are the UK dealerships that are closing and the car tariff into the US, a market which seems to be critical for IA. One of the UK dealerships that closed told me that a major reason for them was that IA was not paying their invoices, which seems bizarre. The impression created was that IA were not supporting them at all well and they finally got fed-up. I know I am very late to this conversation but if you have a chance to discuss these two points with her, that would be most helpful.

 

[MattA]

To be fair she suggested that. I have dm’d Krabby and Stu to see if they are interested in doing that. So I think that’s a real possibility.

I would be listening to that with great interest

 

[Rok_Dr]

Ok.

I have a reply from Lynn Calder. She has taken the time to write a lengthy and candid response herself which I appreciate. In her covering email she suggested that we talked on the phone to discuss the next steps which I will try and arrange. So to make sure that I have fully understood what they are planning and ask some further questions I will not post the response until I have spoken with Lynn.
Hopefully that will be soon.

Thanks for the update @Tom D. Your efforts are realy appreciated

That’s an encouraging outcome and I look forward to further developments.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Max]

CAD-IT Service Lifecycle Management solution for INEOS Automotive Grenadier 4x4 - YouTube

That would be me, but there is an easy way out - release the manual/parts books. And they have still got time.

Three years ago and more we were hearing and seeing allsorts of interesting carrots [click link above]but never saw a time locked in...funny that.

Maybe Haynes Autofix manuals are going to be first

 

[Annee Grenadier_girl]

Ok.

I have a reply from Lynn Calder. She has taken the time to write a lengthy and candid response herself which I appreciate. In her covering email she suggested that we talked on the phone to discuss the next steps which I will try and arrange. So to make sure that I have fully understood what they are planning and ask some further questions I will not post the response until I have spoken with Lynn.
Hopefully that will be soon.

Well you’re honoured, all I’ve had from my emails to her saying much the same as you did Tom was radio silence and forwarded to “customer service” to sort out….an absolute joke and I remain an Ineos leaver as much as I love the vehicle, back to the classic Defender for me I think.

 

[Annee Grenadier_girl]

Well done Tom and great to hear that she is engaging with you. The opening paragraphs of your letter I could have written myself; I too am really hoping that IA flourish for all the obvious reasons. The two things that concern me most are the UK dealerships that are closing and the car tariff into the US, a market which seems to be critical for IA. One of the UK dealerships that closed told me that a major reason for them was that IA was not paying their invoices, which seems bizarre. The impression created was that IA were not supporting them at all well and they finally got fed-up. I know I am very late to this conversation but if you have a chance to discuss these two points with her, that would be most helpful.

My local dealership said Ineos also owe them a massive amount of money, I also personally know the owner of said dealership and he confirmed this.

 

[Motorvat]

Hi Tom

It is encouraging you have received a response. However, I feel that INEOS has misled us all and continues to do so, as it has proven impossible to obtain any meaningful answers to service or repair queries.

More concerning is that, despite their knowledge of how after sales functions in practice, they continue to advertise levels of support as they have done from the beginning—support that simply does not exist and has,in fact, diminished in the UK with the closure of over 50% of their initial dealerships

I received the following on Friday (although the list was not attached ): It appears that in addition to Oxford, which has no service facilities, there are now only eight service centres in the UK.


"I’ve reattached the list of available service centres, which includes eight additional options aside from Oxford"

If given the opportunity, please enquire why they continue to advertise levels of support that do not exist, potentially misleading future buyers. Transparency is always the best approach to addressing issues, current owners are the best-informed group and could offer practical workarounds until full INEOS support becomes available. They should listen, not hide or make vague promises. My first suggestion would be for INEOS to provide owners or local workshops if ,requested with exactly the same information given to dealers, who I assume do not have full manuals but must have sufficient details to have been servicing and repairing vehicles since 2023.

Good luck with the phone call

John

Extract from current website:

HELP IS AT HAND
We’ve built the Grenadier to last. Tested over 1.8 million kilometres to be tough, strong, and durable. We’re so confident in its capability, we’re offering a five-year warranty.



We’ll launch this year with around 185 service sites and workshops to keep you on the move, and get your Grenadier serviced every 12 months. All ensure our exacting standards are met at every turn. Quality partners who really ‘get’ off-road vehicles. All trained and supported by our own technical teams locally and via INEOS Automotive HQ.

PARTS SUPPORT​

We know you depend on your Grenadier. You can’t afford costly downtime. So, our approved network of local workshops will carry common parts and we’ll aim to provide delivery in maximum 48 hours for any we don’t have on the shelf.



We’ve teamed up with an experienced automotive logistics partner and have a central European parts centre as well as extra regional hubs. So, we can get parts and accessories to you quickly, wherever you are.



We’ve also developed an interactive parts catalogue to make it easy for you to identify exactly what parts you need, and to place an order for them.

OFF-GRID SUPPORT​

We want to support you even when you’re off the beaten track. So, beyond our network, we have a global agreement with Bosch Car Service so you can access more remote workshop partners worldwide, even where the Grenadier isn’t sold. Our team at INEOS HQ will work with you and the workshop to ensure downtime is kept to a minimum. That could be by text, phone, or email. And if it’s a real emergency, our ‘Flying Spanners’ technicians will even fly to remote locations.

 

[Annee Grenadier_girl]

Hi Tom

It is encouraging you have received a response. However, I feel that INEOS has misled us all and continues to do so, as it has proven impossible to obtain any meaningful answers to service or repair queries.

More concerning is that, despite their knowledge of how after sales functions in practice, they continue to advertise levels of support as they have done from the beginning—support that simply does not exist and has,in fact, diminished in the UK with the closure of over 50% of their initial dealerships

I received the following on Friday (although the list was not attached ): It appears that in addition to Oxford, which has no service facilities, there are now only eight service centres in the UK.


"I’ve reattached the list of available service centres, which includes eight additional options aside from Oxford"

If given the opportunity, please enquire why they continue to advertise levels of support that do not exist, potentially misleading future buyers. Transparency is always the best approach to addressing issues, current owners are the best-informed group and could offer practical workarounds until full INEOS support becomes available. They should listen, not hide or make vague promises. My first suggestion would be for INEOS to provide owners or local workshops if ,requested with exactly the same information given to dealers, who I assume do not have full manuals but must have sufficient details to have been servicing and repairing vehicles since 2023.

Good luck with the phone call

John

Extract from current website:

HELP IS AT HAND
We’ve built the Grenadier to last. Tested over 1.8 million kilometres to be tough, strong, and durable. We’re so confident in its capability, we’re offering a five-year warranty.



We’ll launch this year with around 185 service sites and workshops to keep you on the move, and get your Grenadier serviced every 12 months. All ensure our exacting standards are met at every turn. Quality partners who really ‘get’ off-road vehicles. All trained and supported by our own technical teams locally and via INEOS Automotive HQ.

PARTS SUPPORT​

We know you depend on your Grenadier. You can’t afford costly downtime. So, our approved network of local workshops will carry common parts and we’ll aim to provide delivery in maximum 48 hours for any we don’t have on the shelf.



We’ve teamed up with an experienced automotive logistics partner and have a central European parts centre as well as extra regional hubs. So, we can get parts and accessories to you quickly, wherever you are.



We’ve also developed an interactive parts catalogue to make it easy for you to identify exactly what parts you need, and to place an order for them.

OFF-GRID SUPPORT​

We want to support you even when you’re off the beaten track. So, beyond our network, we have a global agreement with Bosch Car Service so you can access more remote workshop partners worldwide, even where the Grenadier isn’t sold. Our team at INEOS HQ will work with you and the workshop to ensure downtime is kept to a minimum. That could be by text, phone, or email. And if it’s a real emergency, our ‘Flying Spanners’ technicians will even fly to remote locations.

Thanks for posting this, it’ll save me a lot of explaining to someone I’ll be speaking to next week.