Letter to Lynne Calder

[Tom D]

So, It was suggested in the stuck in Namibia thread that a letter ought to be sent to IA to question the standard of after sales care. This can then be signed by any interested parties.
I’d be happy to write it, however I think that as it’s a letter from the Grenadier owning community then it ought to be representative of the views of that community. So I would like your feedback.
I sense that many of the issues with customer service are mostly in the European market however some affect the rest of the world too.

Topics I would include in the letter:
Spare parts availability. Why aren’t parts available next day as they are for other manufacturers?

Diagnostics: Why are owners unable to diagnose faults and reset service intervals as we were promised in the buildup to launch. We were told that this would be a car that you can work on yourself.

The workshop manual: Where is it? Will we ever get it or have they changed their minds on this?

Others??
Please make your suggestions below.

 

[landmannnn]

Those are the key questions. I have a feeling that the message might be diluted if loads more are asked.

 

[Trialmaster]

Thanks Tom, personally I would keep it very simple. The problems Annee highlighted should be incorporated.

Mainly, lack of communication, outlets in the UK closing and spares being difficult to come by. Spares is particularly important, as they promised 24 hour delivery when required.

I doubt they will bother about the Workshop Manual regardless of our bleating.

 

[Baron von Teuchter]

I’ve just been through a repair with a 3rd party bodyshop. Ineos tried to be helpful but the real key issue for me is the ability for 3td parties to identify part numbers so orders can be placed.

It took us weeks and weeks of farting about with the various dealers, service managers, customer service managers, after sales mangers etc to sort this.

Once parts were identified they were generally delivered within a week which I think is actually ok.

To fix this exploded parts diagrams are needed and a parts catalogue. This will let anyone attempting to repair a vehicle identify what they need to buy. At the moment it’s virtually impossible for anyone other than a dealer. Of course, dealers aren’t necessarily accident repairers or painters / Bodyshops.

Everyone I spoke to at Ineos wanted to help with a great deal of enthusiasm (well, except Grange in Edinburgh who wouldn’t return my calls) but they were generally hamstrung by not being able to share info easily with the accident repairer. This is a problem at corporate level, not dealer level.

 

[Tom D]

Regarding the manual, what I want to know is are they doing it or not? Because if not with the combined skills on this forum we could probably produce something useful. Like Dr Rok has done…
Wouldn’t want to put loads of effort into it only to find that the official manual appears shortly after..

 

[Baron von Teuchter]

Honestly, the workshop manuals would be nice, drawings/models/parts catalogue would be a massive step.

 

[holdmybeer]

This is a problem at corporate level, not dealer level.

Yup. And there's really no effective pressure an existing owner can exert on Ineos Automotive to deliver on their promises. Strongly worded letters.

1. Firmware updates.
2. Shop/owner/parts manuals.

Those were promises since launch. #2 was actually a promise for years before launch and is part of the reason some of us pre-ordered with faith.

 

[Tom D]

I’ll draft a letter, and create a google form, then anyone who wants to put their name to it can sign, it might add a little weight to the argument.

Can anyone remember and link me to the content where they promised the manuals and home serviceability. I know that they did but I can’t remember where…

 

[Jeremy996]

Try page 53 of the original press pack, https://www.theineosforum.com/resources/ineos-press-pack-english.4/

 

[Tom D]

Thanks. That makes it pretty clear.

Didn’t they discuss it on one of the building the grenadier videos too?

 

[Jeremy996]

Page 44 of the final UK digital brochure also make a mention, as does a Car article in January 2022 by Mark Walton, a quote from Gary Pearson. I have saved versions of the documents on my hard drive as I am accumulating evidence for a consumer law challenge at the 5 year point. Service access was a significant part of my decision to purchase.

 

[Znarfgh]

The other item that should be included is the lack of dealerships - what happened to the Bosch service network? I read that many owners have to travel ridiculous distances to have their vehicles serviced/repaired.

 

[Dlucky]

So, It was suggested in the stuck in Namibia thread that a letter ought to be sent to IA to question the standard of after sales care. This can then be signed by any interested parties.
I’d be happy to write it, however I think that as it’s a letter from the Grenadier owning community then it ought to be representative of the views of that community. So I would like your feedback.
I sense that many of the issues with customer service are mostly in the European market however some affect the rest of the world too.

Topics I would include in the letter:
Spare parts availability. Why aren’t parts available next day as they are for other manufacturers?

Diagnostics: Why are owners unable to diagnose faults and reset service intervals as we were promised in the buildup to launch. We were told that this would be a car that you can work on yourself.

The workshop manual: Where is it? Will we ever get it or have they changed their minds on this?

Others??
Please make your suggestions below.

Power steering pump noise and HVAC system that has mind of its own. Why any issues that we have brought up to the dealer are always written off as “normal”

 

[avidtest]

I'm happy about this, particularly getting a group of us to sign the letter. And I agree on keeping it simple; you've hit the main points. There is one more little caveat though, and I believe it's a major shortcoming by Ineos. By staying virtually silent and not communicating with their small(ish) group of owners on these issues, which have been iterated by owners ad nauseum, they've chosen to subdue the voices of a potentially incredible (and free) sales force - us owners. I'm often asked if I'd recommend the vehicle. My response is, "it's a pretty damned capable vehicle, but has some quirks and a few major shortcomings (no service manual, no ability for users or 3rd party shops to reset service intervals, and of course ADAS, which while annoying is not a show-stopper). Unless Ineos chooses to address their promises for these things, I would think hard before buying. And that goes double if you're far from a dealer". In this changing age of communication and marketing, Ineos is really screwing up by keeping their head in the sand imho.

 

[DenisM]

I support all of the above.
I'd like to suggest a "cc" of the letter to Sir Jim would be entirely appropriate...

 

[Tazzieman]

I support all of the above.
I'd like to suggest a "cc" of the letter to Sir Jim would be entirely appropriate...

I think his hands are full of Manchester right now.

 

[255/85]

I think a formal letter to Ms. Calder is a very nice straightforward attempt to elicit some answers. I'm all for it. I also think it should include an invitation to communicate with the forum members directly. It can be in as formal or informal as she might wish. Greg Clarke released video statements and assurances and went on a nice drive with Krabby & Stu. That was really a nice touch. What we want is communication first and foremost. Perhaps George Ratcliffe should be included.

 

[Shopkeep]

I think his hands are full of Manchester right now.

He has a lot of balls in the air at the moment:
INEOS Energy completes the acquisition of oil and gas assets in US Gulf from CNOOC

 

[DenisM]

@255/85 /85, @Tazzieman and @Shopkeep ...you're exactly right. A polite "cc" to George R as chairman? of IA would be more appropriate than Sir Jim .....

 

[landmannnn]

The other item that should be included is the lack of dealerships - what happened to the Bosch service network? I read that many owners have to travel ridiculous distances to have their vehicles serviced/repaired.

The Bosch network issue is that not all of these service centres have lifts rated for 2.7T.