Leaking Safari Roof and Door Seals Flooding The Car And other Leaks and Problems

[dreamalaska]

I thought the idea of having easily accessible drain holes in the flooring was a novel idea. I didn’t realize at the time their real purpose.

 

[nodric]

Hi @nodric - I'm currently reading all the comments in this thread, so apologies for my delayed response! I've also noticed water buildup at the front door of my own Grenadier following heavy rain. I haven’t tackled this issue yet, but now seems like the perfect time to do so. I'm committed to finding a solution since this affects me directly as well! I'll discuss this with my team and share any useful information I can gather. Thanks.

Thanks for replying. I will share anything I can as my own saga gets resolved. I think now with Ineos UK involved we might get traction, maybe.

And you being a motivated owner/dealer truly helps

 

[Catpaw4x4]

UPDATE MAY 8TH 2024

Ineos UK called me in response to the additional emails I had sent them and had a 30 minute call with me.

They are escalating internally and are going to liaise with the US regional manager, who is probably my dealer contact anyway, and will do all they can to get my vehicle fixed and to investigate the rubber trim issue I have identified, as well as the door seals and the A/C dripping issue.

They did tell me that the door seal issue is a well known problem and they are seeing a lot of claims on this. The flooding/deluge/gushing anomaly is something they will investigate further now I have raised this and made the videos I have.

I felt like they are concerned and taking this seriously, and I was pleased with the attention. I clearly stated I want the car repaired and serviceable as overall they have created a winner. But a leaking car and poor dealer service are not welcome, whether the dealer's fault or not. I told them I did not want Tesla quality.

Even if water does not leak into the vehicle as @Zimm and I are debating, having water retention of a gallon or two in the door sill is not a design feature that is acceptable. Simply diverting that water flow from the gutter prevents this. If you wash your car and deluge the door frame by spraying the hose into the same A pillar gap it should drain away and not collect and sit until you open the door. My Toyota and no other car I have owned in recent memory does this. My Toyota has roof channels that flow the water down the side of the windshield.

In fact even if the water gets into the A pillar gap it should not get between the seals, which is what is happening, and where the water is being trapped. @Zimm

Wading in deep water might cause issues, but then we do expect some consequences of driving through rivers anyway. I'd still expect the water to drain away however and not be held like a bucket.

Toyota photos attached for reference.

Whatever the actual issue is ... when I got in this morning felt that the humidity was higher inside than outside (inside fogged up with air recirculate - turned AC on to clear). We've had some rain these past few days but nothing heavy or long duration (I've thinking we are actually in a drought). Water is getting inside/ some where and no one would find that acceptible in a new car. I'll be pulling a few things "up" this weekend looking.

 

[Karearea]

Say you don't have adhesive applied for 3-4 inches along the door weather stripping, that will make it lose when you open it. When you close it, it should still be pressed shut. The non adhesive side obviously seals when pressed against the metal or it wouldn't ever work, and so should the side that supposed to have adhesive. Its squished between the metal surfaces after all. No one is reporting the stripping just hanging out of the door. And it's not as if it's old stripping that has a crusty surface or lost its spring and squish. That much water is not merely capillary'ing thru. There must be an actual gap when the door is closed.

Well I’ve seen a vehicle delivered to a dealer from port and before pdi with the door seal hanging down outside the door! Just for information guys

 

[Karearea]

The door seals droop (see photo) when they lose their adhesion along the bottom edge. I secured mine back with carpet tape and can confirm when it rains the water seeps out of that lower seal area leaving some grit and debris behind on the sill. From this and your later post about sealing it would seem that the tightness of the seal is not there allowing water to drain away. Maybe just due to the positioning of the seals with my carpet tape, or worse the gap between the door and the frame.

That seal also clearly shows the “modification” of “recall corrective process” whatever we want to call the cutting of the door seal.
Seems very unacceptable to me that the correction is NOT preventing water ingress but simply allowing it to drain!

 

[nodric]

That seal also clearly shows the “modification” of “recall corrective process” whatever we want to call the cutting of the door seal.
Seems very unacceptable to me that the correction is NOT preventing water ingress but simply allowing it to drain!

I guess that will be awesome when wading.

 

[DaveB]

I think we are making excuses for a crap design that stops the water being channeled away from the A pillars effectively. Yes, the seals should seal as that's sort of the point of a seal but at the same time channelling gallons/liters of water into the door shut is not a genius design.

So if I understand you correctly you are saying it is ok and satisfactory for water to pour from the roof into the door shut (also known as the door jam) down the A pillar in copious quantities as long as the door seals seal effectively that should prevent it the water from collecting in the door sill between the seals?

While I might be willing to accept that it seems ludicrous to me that having water deluge into the door shut as acceptable when a simple roof gutter modification would stop that entirely. Irrespective, the door seals should work and clearly do not unless affixed correctly.

As I and another poster said, our old Defenders did not exhibit this issue, and my Toyota 4Runner does not either. No water is channeled into the door shut as the roof is designed to channel the water away more effectively.

It sounds like we are making excuses to give Ineos a pass.

I had water in between the door seals that poured out onto the ground in front of my feet.
I was expecting the problem so stood back after first heavy rain.
Surprisingly it has never happened again and mine is parked out in the open 24/7.
Not sure how it self healed but maybe the direct baking summer sun did it

 

[Catpaw4x4]

That seal also clearly shows the “modification” of “recall corrective process” whatever we want to call the cutting of the door seal.
Seems very unacceptable to me that the correction is NOT preventing water ingress but simply allowing it to drain!

So had a "footwash" on the driver's side this morning for 1st time. But none on passenger side (2 times in past 4+ months). No water past the door seal on the vehicle side. In closer inspection of the water "footprint" totally dry above the level of the foot tread and before the vehicle side door seal. If the cut outs on the bottom of the door side seal are the problem how does water travel up the side of the vehicle into the footwell area? No water falling from above inside the vehicle. Only water drip was at the point of windshield gutter guard and gutter and it was dripping just on the foot tread.. No water footprint from the gutter guard down the A pillar side of the vehicle.

 

[anand]

If the cut outs on the bottom of the door side seal are the problem how does water travel up the side of the vehicle into the footwell area?

The cuts aren't the problem, they are an attempted solution.

The cut outs ("notches" technically) are to allow small amounts of water stuck between the seals to drain. The water enters the space between the seals usually because the outer seal (the one on the door itself) comes unglued somewhere (usually on a vertical aspect). When it comes unglued, water can now seep through that spot and fill up the space at the bottom of the door; this rarely (if ever) actually leads to water backing up enough to enter the vehicle (because the inner seal is still good).

 

[Catpaw4x4]

The cuts aren't the problem, they are an attempted solution.

The cut outs ("notches" technically) are to allow small amounts of water stuck between the seals to drain. The water enters the space between the seals usually because the outer seal (the one on the door itself) comes unglued somewhere (usually on a vertical aspect). When it comes unglued, water can now seep through that spot and fill up the space at the bottom of the door; this rarely (if ever) actually leads to water backing up enough to enter the vehicle (because the inner seal is still good).

That's what I was thinking - the cut outs are not the problem. Seemed that it was implied they were. May have misread.

 

[nodric]

I had water in between the door seals that poured out onto the ground in front of my feet.
I was expecting the problem so stood back after first heavy rain.
Surprisingly it has never happened again and mine is parked out in the open 24/7.
Not sure how it self healed but maybe the direct baking summer sun did it

Did you check the integrity of the seals by giving them a good tugging all the way around? Any gap lower down would allow drainage and miraculously cure the problem.

 

[nodric]

That's what I was thinking - the cut outs are not the problem. Seemed that it was implied they were. May have misread.

The cutouts are a solution to the water retention. I wonder how this impacts wading? We have to assume if the inner seal is good then it will not as long as we don't exceed the wading limits specified. The one side effect of water collecting in the sill and draining is you end up with dirty sills in the door shut every time this happens. This is observed and photographed on my vehicle and the loaners where the lower door seals have failed as the water drains and leave muck behind. That muck is coming off the vehicle as the water runs off the roof etc and spills into the gap at the A pillar, nicely facilitated by the rubber trim on the roof gutter.

If they redesign the door seals to facilitate draining, and better still, to prevent water getting between the seals to begin with, and stop water being deluged into the door shut from the A pillar, then all will be good. Maybe we are too demanding

 

[nodric]

So had a "footwash" on the driver's side this morning for 1st time. But none on passenger side (2 times in past 4+ months). No water past the door seal on the vehicle side. In closer inspection of the water "footprint" totally dry above the level of the foot tread and before the vehicle side door seal. If the cut outs on the bottom of the door side seal are the problem how does water travel up the side of the vehicle into the footwell area? No water falling from above inside the vehicle. Only water drip was at the point of windshield gutter guard and gutter and it was dripping just on the foot tread.. No water footprint from the gutter guard down the A pillar side of the vehicle.

Does it rain upside down in your state

 

[nodric]

Small update. My dealer called yesterday (May 9th) to say all parts (new door seals and replacement electrical boxes damaged by the tech) are now in stock. However, he said, and I agreed, that he knows fitting the seals will not stop the waterfall effect and/or water ingress as a result, so he and I are waiting to Ineos to tell him how to repair the car effectively. I emailed them again yesterday, but as of end of business on Friday (May 9th) no more contact has been received. The dealer also pinged their intermediary. I guess we will see what next week brings.

 

[nodric]

Sunday May 12th more video filming with actual rain.

This video is long as I did a lot of experimenting and filming. It begins 3 days ago, and then cuts to today (May 12th) as I had to wait for rain.

There will be one more video as I open the doors after the rain abates.

This will show you where the problem getting into the door area is coming from.

1. Should it be doing this?
2. Should the door seals be resilient to this?
3. Should the water collect in the door shut?
4. Should that water get into the car?

I'l let you decide. It is very very clear where the water gets into the door area from. Ineos either need to redesign the door seals or the gutter flow/trim, or both.

Click here to watch the video.

If you don't want to watch all 9 minutes skip to the last 2 minutes for the heavy rain scene.

Happy Days!

p.s. This has been sent to Ineos who are now aware of this forum and have been reading this thread.

 

[DaBull]

Sunday May 12th more video filming with actual rain.

This video is long as I did a lot of experimenting and filming. It begins 3 days ago, and then cuts to today (May 12th) as I had to wait for rain.

There will be one more video as I open the doors after the rain abates.

This will show you where the problem getting into the door area is coming from.

1. Should it be doing this?
2. Should the door seals be resilient to this?
3. Should the water collect in the door shut?
4. Should that water get into the car?

I'l let you decide. It is very very clear where the water gets into the door area from. Ineos either need to redesign the door seals or the gutter flow/trim, or both.

Click here to watch the video. At the time of posting 4K and HD versions are still processing.

If you don't want to watch all 9 minutes skip to the last 2 minutes for the heavy rain scene.

Happy Days!

p.s. This has been sent to Ineos who are now aware of this forum and have been reading this thread.

Hi Nodric, Thanks for making this great video. After reviewing it I have come away with two conclusions. 1 - If the door seal is correctly attached and secure it should prevent rain from getting between the 2 seals and or the seals need to be redesigned. 2 - Perhaps the end of the gutter piece you removed needs to be redesigned to deflect all water onto the front windshield to keep any from coming down the A pillar. Likely a combination of both are going to be needed. DaBull

 

[erricco111]

Hi Nodric, Thanks for making this great video. After reviewing it I have come away with two conclusions. 1 - If the door seal is correctly attached and secure it should prevent rain from getting between the 2 seals and or the seals need to be redesigned. 2 - Perhaps the end of the gutter piece you removed needs to be redesigned to deflect all water onto the front windshield to keep any from coming down the A pillar. Likely a combination of both are going to be needed. DaBull

Someone good at CAD drawing and a 3D printer to make a prototype would be useful ... or maybe dismantle the existing piece, put silicone inside and remount it, that should help too. I will try the silicone option next weekend when I get back from my work trip.

 

[landmannnn]

Mine is bone dry on the left side, the seal is properly attached.
On the right hand door where the seal is not fully attached, water is getting in.
The rain channel is not great in the video, but I believe the issue is fundamentally the poorly applied seal.

 

[Rupert]

Mine is bone dry on the left side, the seal is properly attached.
On the right hand door where the seal is not fully attached, water is getting in.
The rain channel is not great in the video, but I believe the issue is fundamentally the poorly applied seal.

Sunday May 12th more video filming with actual rain.

This video is long as I did a lot of experimenting and filming. It begins 3 days ago, and then cuts to today (May 12th) as I had to wait for rain.

There will be one more video as I open the doors after the rain abates.

This will show you where the problem getting into the door area is coming from.

1. Should it be doing this?
2. Should the door seals be resilient to this?
3. Should the water collect in the door shut?
4. Should that water get into the car?

I'l let you decide. It is very very clear where the water gets into the door area from. Ineos either need to redesign the door seals or the gutter flow/trim, or both.

Click here to watch the video. At the time of posting 4K and HD versions are still processing.

If you don't want to watch all 9 minutes skip to the last 2 minutes for the heavy rain scene.

Happy Days!

p.s. This has been sent to Ineos who are now aware of this forum and have been reading this thread.

Nordic, I pm’d you. Please give me a call.

 

[Rupert]

Ok. It is def a design flaw. I pulled the rubber corner piece off the (US) drivers side. First pic you can see built in diverted that look like their job is to push water towards the front windshield/screen. I removed the diverters as I noticed there was also some billed through of rubber which was also removed. Not sure it’s going to work but if it is the solution it’s an easy fix.