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General Information request: Piston rod top bearing lubrication

AWo

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11:14 AM
Joined
Feb 28, 2023
Messages
1,210
Location
Germany
Thank to whoever gave me the tip, that the B57 and B58 manuals are available here. I downloaded them and started to read....now I have a question and maybe an expert is here to answer it.

While I found the B57 manual somehat better documented than the B58, the same question stayed unaswered. I wanted to know how the piston rod bearings are lubricated on the piston side. I found thet the crankshaft side is lubricated by bores in the crankshaft, quite normal. In the B58 I found nothing for the bearing at the piston and in the B57 I found that nozzles are used to spray oil under the piston and when it reached BDC it sprays into a bore gallery to cool the piston. Ok, fine, nothing new. What I'm missing is how the bearing is lubricated. I found no graphic or description of bores leading to the bearing or if the returning oil from the cooling circle is routed over the bearing. I recently got three of four pistons in my hand (maybe I make a small video showing the damage) with damages from a too weak oil feed. If that wasn't designed well in that particular enginge I was dealing with. It uses also these common nozzles and the oil feed for the top bearings is just dripping oil. I would have expected that for a hydrodynamic lubrication some bores would be very useful, also the keep things centered. That can lead to such failures I saw, especially when the oil is hot and less thick, the oil pump is not working in higher revs so not generating the necessary pressure while a high load is applied. Like pulling a trailer uphill, with too low revs. A engine strong enough doesn't give you the feedback then, that you should shift a gear back, to reduce the torque and increase the revs.

I absolutely don't expect that from the BMW engines, I would assume their design is very good, no doubt here. Ok, with the Grenadier, where you do not shift yourself, also the transmission should prevent such situations, high load request served by low revs...that is never good, even if the piston/piston rod cooling is good enough.

AWo
 
Probably passively lubricated by the piston squirters. I wouldn't worry about it too much. BMW likely has it covered. A bigger concern is the fact that the cylinder bores are tapered and have a sprayed in liner. The B58 may be difficult to rebuild and maintain factory performance levels.
 
Probably passively lubricated by the piston squirters. I wouldn't worry about it too much. BMW likely has it covered. A bigger concern is the fact that the cylinder bores are tapered and have a sprayed in liner. The B58 may be difficult to rebuild and maintain factory performance levels.

While TSC coated cylinders can be technical rebuild I'll doubt that you'll find a company which can do it. The machinery to create the spray coating and to perform the optical checks are so very, very expensive, that there should not be many, if any, aftermarket company which can create a new spray layer,

AWo
 
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I'm looking all over but I read once that it was Double Broach Pin Oiling on this piston pin.
 
Probably passively lubricated by the piston squirters. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
If that would be the case, eventually it makes sense to investigate further.
Not a BMW engine, but a very good tutorial on how oil spray nozzles and their oil feeding system work:
LR Time Christian & Vera video
As Christian explains: Assuming that, on idle revvs, the spray nozzles are cut off by series pressure control valves to save oil pump drive power, continuous idling should be avoided. Indeed I believe I read somewhere (here?) a while ago that long idling is not good for our engines. Being designed for start-stop operation, this may well be true...
 
If that would be the case, eventually it makes sense to investigate further.
Not a BMW engine, but a very good tutorial on how oil spray nozzles and their oil feeding system work:
LR Time Christian & Vera video
As Christian explains: Assuming that, on idle revvs, the spray nozzles are cut off by series pressure control valves to save oil pump drive power, continuous idling should be avoided. Indeed I believe I read somewhere (here?) a while ago that long idling is not good for our engines. Being designed for start-stop operation, this may well be true...

I'm not certain I would agree that the oil squirter check valves are there to reduce oil pump drive power exclusively. It may be that the oil would never reach the under side of the piston (and small end rod bearings?) at low rpm/pressure anyway. (Christian mentions "dribbling" before a correct spray pattern materializes which is likely the result of using durable mechanical check valves vs. fragile electronically controlled versions.) So the benefit may be to reduce fuel consumption at idle but also ensure rod bearing/piston cooling at a predetermined engine load. I didn't watch the whole video. At what engine rpm does the oil pump generate 1.2 bar (average).

Extended idle times are generally not good for most older engines - diesels especially so. Cylinder wall temperatures can decrease to the point that fuel ignition is suppressed. Unburnt fuel then dilutes cylinder wall lubrication and excessive wear occurs which does not happen under normal use. Maybe that isn't an issue on modern engines?

The B58 cooling system is fairly complex and does maintain cylinder head temperature when possible so the above issue may be resolved. Still, it's probably best to avoid extensive idling with either the B57 or B58 beyond a brief turbo cool down period before shut off until we know more.
 
I contacted a couple of aftermarket B58 connecting rod manufacturers and asked how the wrist pin was lubricated on their product - i.e. via the oil control ring or from below, etc. None have replied.

There are holes on the underside of the small end of the OEM connecting rod so it is fairly safe to assume oil is flowing in some direction over the wrist pin bushing.
 
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