How many cars have been built?

[Davman]

Mine is high 2800’s - and was apparently produced in the last few weeks.

 

[grenadierboy]

Mine is high 2800’s - and was apparently produced in the last few weeks.

That's interesting.

According to IA mine (1700) was "produced" on 25 Jan. Yours (2900) was made, say end of March, and there is roughly 1,200 VINS apart.

So - does that mean IA has manufactured only 1,200 cars in 8 weeks - that's only 30 cars a day - hardly a mass production, Porsche was hand building 50 cars a day in the early 1960's!

 

[Davman]

That's interesting.

According to IA mine (1700) was "produced" on 25 Jan. Yours (2900) was made, say end of March, and there is roughly 1,200 VINS apart.

So - does that mean IA has manufactured only 1,200 cars in 8 weeks - that's only 30 cars a day - hardly a mass production, Porsche was hand building 50 cars a day in the early 1960's!

Agreed, thats why I posted my number.
I was called by my dealer in the first week of April, saying that it was now being produced, so your guesstimate is pretty accurate (@DaveB would be proud)

I have a big gut feeling that INEOS haven't got that many orders on the books yet - somewhere in the order of 5500-6000 if you ask me.
This gut feel is also based upon a manually entered new vehicle order number (not a computer generated number) that I saw recently which was in the vicinity of those numbers.

 

[grenadierboy]

That's really interesting and if true - then that means IA will probably only make 8,000 Grenadiers in the first full year of production - half what they initially indicated.

So the question then is whether the lower than expected levels of deposit holders is just as much holding back production as is global part supply issues.

With substantial factory fixed costs - why build 100 Grenadiers a day; when you can only sell 30 of them - better to flatten out production to meet sales over the first 12 months until orders increase then ramp up.

 

[painter]

With substantial factory fixed costs - why build 100 Grenadiers a day; when you can only sell 30 of them - better to flatten out production to meet sales over the first 12 months until orders increase then ramp up.

Are they hurting sales by restricting production and thereby extending initial (or current) order fulfillment ? I'm thinking these cars will sell themselves when they hit the street. But wait times wont help (initial release is one thing, waiting thereafter another).

There is a time and place for everything and tastes change making it a tricky balance.

Or might they be they restricting to aid pricing and create an aura of exclusivity.

 

[DenisM]

I'm convinced that it's been a perfect storm of the following all coming together: clambering up the "learning curve", recruitment of the "right" skills mix in an environment of skilled labour shortages world wide, especially engineering skills, serious impediments to supply chains for all manufacturing, esp the chip shortage...which if the geopolitics of China's intent regarding Taiwan, ultimately plays out is going to virtually paralyse global manufacturing full stop.. unless the chip foundries are able to be relocated prior...
Once the manufacturing processes are 'bedded down' I'm sure production will ramp up.....
I think it's a mighty effort to have gotten this far in 7 yrs since they first scribbled an idea in the pub!

 

[DCPU]

With substantial factory fixed costs - why build 100 Grenadiers a day; when you can only sell 30 of them - better to flatten out production to meet sales over the first 12 months until orders increase then ramp up.

Remember that the factory in the first year of Ineos's ownership made a profit of of €28.4m on a turnover of €70.1m - and that's with the ramping up of employees, training, etc for the grenadier but with no revenue contribution from general Grenadier sales.

The equipment and employees are there for two shift working, artificially lowering productivity makes no economic sense, unless your workers are on zero hour contracts.

 

[Chris]

So, it's official, as of today 2300 built

"Having built 2,300 vehicles, (1,700 in 2023), over 500 have now reached our retail partners throughout the UK and Europe. And Grenadier-packed ships have set sail on their long journeys to Sub-Saharan Africa and Asia-Pacific."

And, not one of them is mine!

 

[marko]

So, it's official, as of today 2300 built

"Having built 2,300 vehicles, (1,700 in 2023), over 500 have now reached our retail partners throughout the UK and Europe. And Grenadier-packed ships have set sail on their long journeys to Sub-Saharan Africa and Asia-Pacific."

And, not one of them is mine!

Well that figure of 2300 from IA doesn’t tie up with my VIN of approx 2500 which was in transit over a week ago and there’s a comment on this thread referring to having a high 2800’s I think. So where are the missing vehicles? Surely not scrapped as Lynn said there were no quality problems??? Or maybe the last numbers on the VIN are not assigned sequentially but in batches

 

[klarie]

Well that figure of 2300 from IA doesn’t tie up with my VIN of approx 2500 which was in transit over a week ago and there’s a comment on this thread referring to having a high 2800’s I think. So where are the missing vehicles? Surely not scrapped as Lynn said there were no quality problems??? Or maybe the last numbers on the VIN are not assigned sequentially but in batches

We do not know when this post was approved for release. Production is continuing and certainly not halted because of some marketing or customer information - and likely with gaining experience and expertise they will increase the production rate.

 

[Eric]

Well that figure of 2300 from IA doesn’t tie up with my VIN of approx 2500 which was in transit over a week ago and there’s a comment on this thread referring to having a high 2800’s I think. So where are the missing vehicles? Surely not scrapped as Lynn said there were no quality problems??? Or maybe the last numbers on the VIN are not assigned sequentially but in batches

There are all the PT series about that will have VIN, we don't know where customer numbers started.

 

[marko]

There are all the PT series about that will have VIN, we don't know where customer numbers started.

Pretty sure I read on one of the VIN threads that the prototype series (2B say) and production try out (PT2, 3) characters were incorporated into last (normally numerical) section of the VIN. In production cars these are all numerical, understood to be starting with job 1. But who really knows apart from IA and the authorities?

 

[Nocrays]

Yep the lack of credible info continues.

Great to see some movement is handover but the build numbers are a concern.

I was a late reservation in early 22 then ordered on 18may and config locked in November.

Obviously missed the contract issues at that time. Since then contract has been imminentbut no details available.

Hopefully will see the vehicle by Christmas but now even that’s got question marks.

 

[grenadierboy]

Interesting to get the latest "update" from the Grenadier Team - basically confirming information that we have all pieced together weeks ago, software update, replacing small number of redesigned parts that haven't been fully received yet.

Don't understand why they are not on the front foot with information to their customers but continue to follow.

Anyway - as we thought, from production launch on 16 Oct to 31 Dec 2022 - 10 cars a day dribbled off the line. Since then, an average of only 25 cars a day have rolled off the line. As Daveman suggests maybe they only have 6,000 orders

 

[ddv]

I think you need to be careful estimating number of vehicles produced by looking at the last 6 digits of the VIN. As I understand it these are only sequential when all other values of the ViN are the same (e.g. year of manufacture, place of manufacture etc - but more importantly vehicle model and engine type.) Depending on how vehicle model is interpreted this could mean that the last 6 digits are only sequential within, say, Trialmasters with a petrol engine etc, and that a different series will apply to Trialmasters with a diesel engine, Fieldmasters with petrol etc. Maybe there may me separate series for right hand drive and left hand drive. A useful explanation of VIN can be seen at https://www.curogens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/CuroGens-VIN-WP-111914-hqp.pdf

 

[MrMike]

Interesting to get the latest "update" from the Grenadier Team - basically confirming information that we have all pieced together weeks ago, software update, replacing small number of redesigned parts that haven't been fully received yet.

Don't understand why they are not on the front foot with information to their customers but continue to follow.

Anyway - as we thought, from production launch on 16 Oct to 31 Dec 2022 - 10 cars a day dribbled off the line. Since then, an average of only 25 cars a day have rolled off the line. As Daveman suggests maybe they only have 6,000 orders

Back in Jan of this year my dealer said there were 700 orders Aust wide, then after the drive days that number doubled. Be interested to see what they are now, considering Toyota are having big delays in filling orders

 

[Korg]

So its clear that production isn’t going as quickly as IA had hoped. Build dates are slipping from one month to the next, and then again. This has made me wonder, just how slowly are they building? They started back in 2022, its now nearly 4 months into 2023 and how many are out there that we know of? I ‘m thinking its less than 1000.. so in 28 weeks or so working 5 days a week thats only 7-8 cars a day…?? Can it really be that few? If they have built 2000 thats only 15 cars a day…

To put it another way if they were building a modest 15000 cars a year that would be 57 per day.. at that rate there should be around 7000 cars out there now..

Any thoughts on the numbers?

Email received today from Ineos:
The first Grenadiers have been registered and handed over to customers.

Having built 2,300 vehicles, (1,700 in 2023), over 500 have now reached our retail partners throughout the UK and Europe. And Grenadier-packed ships have set sail on their long journeys to Sub-Saharan Africa and Asia-Pacific.

As you may remember, in our last email, our CEO, Lynn Calder, explained vehicles were awaiting important software updates. These are now complete, but, to ensure quality, we’re still waiting for suppliers to deliver some modified parts. This is why we haven’t been able to hand over more Grenadiers, and why it’s hard to provide definitive delivery dates.

Regarding your own Grenadier, your retail partner will be in touch about when they’ll be able to hand it over. To help you prepare, we’ll send useful information about driving your vehicle for the first time. And on the day, your retail partner will show you around your Grenadier.

Our first three customers have completed their hand overs before taking the Hard Way Home. So, we’ll be releasing more content on their journeys. In the meantime, take a look at the new teaser video.

 

[OGrid]

Odd, I’m yet to receive the email. If it wasn’t for this forum I’m not sure what I’d be thinking or doing with my current order otherwise, seriously.

 

[DenisM]

Odd, I’m yet to receive the email. If it wasn’t for this forum I’m not sure what I’d be thinking or doing with my current order otherwise, seriously.

Frustrating!! Have you tried logging in to your account and then activating the "Chat" and asking for your "VIN" ? That way, if you receive a VIN, then you know your vehicle is a "physical reality" ...somewhere in the Ineos system. I discovered the chat line was more responsive mid-morning "London" time during the week, which corresponds to 7pm Australian East Coast time. Following advice on this forum I logged on the Chat.., it asked for a "reason"...I responded VIN number for order no. (full order number including the 000 at the front). After a while a real person came on-line then asked how they could assist! so I repeated "VIN number for order No. ...) After some tooi-ng and fro-ing she came back with the VIN!

 

[Davman]

They will only give you a VIN - if you have signed a contract.