Honesty from Ineos Automotive please….

[DCPU]

If IG found an issue with, say, a brake hose/pipe then imagine the effort required to rectify this.

Not only does the supplier have to meet the ongoing production demand but also make sufficient for those vehicles where rework is needed, presumably all vehicles built so far.
Then there's the verification that the fix actually works - the testing - before the supplier gears up.
Then there's the logistics of reworking cars in the compound and cars already shipped - to many destinations.

It is truly massive.

Then add the steering pipe.

It is no wonder to me that it is taking time, and so it should.

Except the issue with the brake hoses, as described and as seen in a photo, seems to be just a simple installation error of over-tightening/not being careful enough and causing twist.

As per Goodridge installation notes:

 

[Tazzieman]

Of course, it's easy for me to be unconcerned as I haven't given Ineos any money except the reservation deposit. If I was further in the order process then I might have a different attitude.

You'd be as excited as those of us who have built vehicles awaiting a ship!

 

[Beormund]

Many projects run over schedule and I guess the Grenadier is no exception. From a quality perspective I'm not concerned about the delays. Ultimately it doesn't really matter what's wrong with them: they're going to have to fix them and it will take as long as it takes unless they run out of money or simply can not find the resources to do so.

I suppose it's theoretically possible that the vehicles are 100% unfit for purpose and will go to a crusher. But this seems pretty unlikely to me. Shipping that many broken and unfixable cars would suggest a total failure of management, engineering and corporate culture at Ineos.

Of course, it's easy for me to be unconcerned as I haven't given Ineos any money except the reservation deposit. If I was further in the order process then I might have a different attitude.

But according to Lynn Calder:

There are no quality issues. On the contrary, launch series vehicles are exceeding our expectations.

 

[Tazzieman]

Before social media and forums, where did all the hot air get vented?
At your local pub?
On the end of an axe coming down on a block of wood?
Letters to the local newspaper?
Or did people just get on with life , maybe a bit tetchy at times - but nobody paid any attention.
The internet has made a lot men into old women , IMO. No offense to women, many of whom complain less than men.
Give IA a break

 

[Trialmaster]

Before social media and forums, where did all the hot air get vented?
At your local pub?
On the end of an axe coming down on a block of wood?
Letters to the local newspaper?
Or did people just get on with life , maybe a bit tetchy at times - but nobody paid any attention.
The internet has made a lot men into old women , IMO. No offense to women, many of whom complain less than men.
Give IA a break

SO TRUE, but in those days, vehicles were designed, produced and delivered. We are just missing the last part, maybe you can magic a solution. Sleep well!

 

[Tazzieman]

SO TRUE, but in those days, vehicles were designed, produced and delivered. We are just missing the last part, maybe you can magic a solution. Sleep well!

I can't magic a 16,000km boat ride , but having emigrated from that part of the world on a boat I know it takes time.
I sleep marvellously in the knowledge that everything has run quite smoothly for me from Day 1, and that the car will do all I require for my remaining years when it arrives as expected in June/July
I know my serial optimism pisses people off, but I'm wired "non grumpy".

 

[Trialmaster]

I can't magic a 16,000km boat ride , but having emigrated from that part of the world on a boat I know it takes time.
I sleep marvellously in the knowledge that everything has run quite smoothly for me from Day 1, and that the car will do all I require for my remaining years when it arrives as expected in June/July
I know my serial optimism pisses people off, but I'm wired "non grumpy".

Doesn't piss me off, it's good to have a variety of views. That was one hell of a boat ride, nearest I've been to Tazzie was in 1988 at RAAF Edinburgh airfield with the RAF! The Barossa valley was the highlight of Australia for me!

 

[DCPU]

But according to Lynn Calder: There are no quality issues. On the contrary, launch series vehicles are exceeding our expectations.

Yes and in addition she went on to say: "In the next two weeks, we’ll deliver 150 vehicles to our retail partners, with customer deliveries following immediately after."

That was on 28th March, so two weeks took us to 11th April. Today is the 14th and we know of 3 customer deliveries.

 

[bemax]

Before social media and forums, where did all the hot air get vented?
At your local pub?
On the end of an axe coming down on a block of wood?
Letters to the local newspaper?
Or did people just get on with life , maybe a bit tetchy at times - but nobody paid any attention.
The internet has made a lot men into old women , IMO. No offense to women, many of whom complain less than men.
Give IA a break

I think that social media in this for(u)m is a really good thing. I might have cancelled my order long before without this input here!

 

[grenadierboy]

Yes and in addition she went on to say: "In the next two weeks, we’ll deliver 150 vehicles to our retail partners, with customer deliveries following immediately after."

That was on 28th March, so two weeks took us to 11th April. Today is the 14th and we know of 3 customer deliveries.

I am not sure about giving them a break but I do 100% support them.

However, IA are dammed if they don't give out updates and then dammed if the updates prove incorrect.

Once again - over promised/under delivered - because only high level, slightly vague promises. it's slippery slope that once started on - difficult to get off.

 

[DaveB]

I am not sure about giving them a break but I do 100% support them.

However, IA are dammed if they don't give out updates and then dammed if the updates prove incorrect.

Once again - over promised/under delivered - because only high level, slightly vague promises. it's slippery slope that once started on - difficult to get off.

I have no doubt they have delivered 150 vehicles to the dealers, who have now delivered three of them to customers.
Promise met 100%
They didn't say the 150 vehicles would be delivered to customers.

 

[Nocrays]

To be honest they already have us hooked. Yes they may lose a few who spit it but most who have ordered are die hards

They would keeping mum and singing the good song to rope more customers and promote the brand which is the key to making this profitable. If they officially release bad press someone somewhere will make a meal of it

So it’s carry on and try not to think about it.

 

[MarkH]

At this stage, Ineos should tell the dealers to throw in a couple of Grenadier caps on delivery and get a photo of the smiling owners wearing them. Something free always goes a long way to smooth the waters.
You can't buy that sort of PR. CAN YOU INEOS!!?

 

[emax]

No one knows what is really going on behind the scenes, and which players in the automotive industry might be putting a spoke in Ineos' wheel. In any case, there are probably some who would be very interested in seeing Ineos fall flat on its face. Be it in (green) politics, with the authorities, with the competitors or wherever.

If you want to have a place in the world, you have to fight for it. And I'm sure INEOS will certainly do that.

 

[ryket]

But according to Lynn Calder: There are no quality issues. On the contrary, launch series vehicles are exceeding our expectations.

Hopefully Ms Calder isn't the Ineos version of Comical Ali:

... but seriously, while their communication sucks (everyone knows that they're having to fix problems) I'm hopeful that all will end well. Eventually.

As long as the actual vehicle's engineering and quality control is good then poor comms can be forgiven.

 

[trobex]

Hopefully Ms Calder isn't the Ineos version of Comical Ali:
View attachment 7808535

... but seriously, while their communication sucks (everyone knows that they're having to fix problems) I'm hopeful that all will end well. Eventually.

As long as the actual vehicle's engineering and quality control is good then poor comms can be forgiven.

Lyn advised that there were NO quality issues, and, that quality exceeded all expectations... I think this is a lie however for the early batches.

 

[emax]

I think this is a lie however for the early batches.

What I don't understand after all your negative predictions and statements is: why do you want to buy a car from a manufacturer that lies?

I can only repeat what I've already told you: I think that the Grenadier is probably the wrong car for you.

And always remember the phenomenon of the self-fulfilling prophecy ...

 

[ryket]

It's worth remembering that the Ineos support teams (marketing, comms) may literally have no idea what's going on. Not great, but also not uncommon in large companies. So the "no quality problems" statement may have been made in good faith.

(alternative explanation: this is Theranos Mk 2, the shipped vehicles are really empty shells without engines, and Ratcliffe has embezzled all our money on buying sports teams and wax jackets)

 

[trobex]

What I don't understand after all your negative predictions and statements is: why do you want to buy a car from a manufacturer that lies?

I can only repeat what I've already told you: I think that the Grenadier is probably the wrong car for you.

And always remember the phenomenon of the self-fulfilling prophecy ...

That's like saying I bought a house and the door is wrong and now I want to sell it. It is possible that maybe the vehicle (when it arrives...) might be half decent?! I think it will be ok... but that does not absolve IA of poor comms which is the headline of this thread. We are both going to be ok

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[rovie]

No one knows what is really going on behind the scenes, and which players in the automotive industry might be putting a spoke in Ineos' wheel. In any case, there are probably some who would be very interested in seeing Ineos fall flat on its face. Be it in (green) politics, with the authorities, with the competitors or wherever.

If you want to have a place in the world, you have to fight for it. And I'm sure INEOS will certainly do that.

Yes, I can confirm this.