hi been lurking here awhile

[007]

Hi I thought I'd like to buy a Grenadier and have test driven one at the local dealership. I believe they currently have about 78 in inventory. The test drive was on local roads and a park, they didn't want to head to 95. I read a lot here in the various steering threads. I don't like what I have read as I've owned a number of early Broncos that I struggled with on the highway with similar setups. So thats my story and here's the question. Has Ineos made any public statements or acknowledged there seems to be an issue with many drivers? Any statement they will be addressing an update to their parts or manufacturing?

 

[anand]

Has Ineos made any public statements or acknowledged there seems to be an issue with many drivers? Any statement they will be addressing an update to their parts or manufacturing?

No and no.

The vehicle operates as designed. The steering damper is quite firm to reduce jarring/jolting through the steering in rough off road applications (what the vehicle is primarily designed for); as a byproduct, on road steering has reduced return-to-center and requires some effort in turning the wheel.

Aftermarket solutions exist to alter this behavior, but, if you've read the threads, you've seen that there are issues with that as well.

My personal feeling is that the issues people have with the steering are primarily centered around either the vehicle having the wrong tire pressure (too high), an alignment issue (not enough caster), or expecting it to drive like something they've driven previously

 

[FlyersFan76]

I found that driving on the highway with the aftermarket steering dampener was worse. Hitting a speedbump at 65mph was not fun.

My wife's escalade is very similar to that. Prior to my Grenadier I had 3 different Land Rovers starting in 2012 with air suspension so my experience was bound to change.

 

[Voader - Oudersopzwier]

Hi I thought I'd like to buy a Grenadier and have test driven one at the local dealership. I believe they currently have about 78 in inventory. The test drive was on local roads and a park, they didn't want to head to 95. I read a lot here in the various steering threads. I don't like what I have read as I've owned a number of early Broncos that I struggled with on the highway with similar setups. So thats my story and here's the question. Has Ineos made any public statements or acknowledged there seems to be an issue with many drivers? Any statement they will be addressing an update to their parts or manufacturing?

There is no issue with the steering, just a perception from certain people who think there is a problem. But that’s mostly because they see the grenadier as an SUV, but it isn’t. If your alignment is correct and your tire pressure is correct, you will feel that there is not much of an issue to drive in a straight line. Of cours it’s not a car where you can take a nap and have one finger on the wheel while cruising the highway.

 

[007]

From reading on this forum there seem to be a lot of members that disagree that there is not an issue. But I get it really wasn't designed to be driven on the highway and it shines off-road where it should.
So let me change the question--Has Ineos ever publicly acknowledged they are experiencing any manufacturing issues or parts performance issues anywhere on the vehicle?

 

[terdrocket]

Other than the wind noise and general driving characteristics associated with driving a boxed shaped, body on frame, solid axle vehicle, you can get on I-95 and keep up with traffic in comfort. Yes, South Florida stop and go and 95+mph driving.
It is NOT a luxury vehicle. It will not drive like any modern vehicle with IFS or air suspension.
The return to center loosens up with some miles on the truck and is a non issue at speed.

 

[Bruce B]

From reading on this forum there seem to be a lot of members that disagree that there is not an issue. But I get it really wasn't designed to be driven on the highway and it shines off-road where it should.
So let me change the question--Has Ineos ever publicly acknowledged they are experiencing any manufacturing issues or parts performance issues anywhere on the vehicle?

Why would they? There really is no issue with their design. Different does not mean wrong.
I have one on order now and I got to drive one for about 300 miles before placing my order. I really don’t understand the gripes. It feels much like my last Ram 2500 did actually. If you really want to purchase one, tell the dealer that a road test at speed on the highway is needed first. If you are serious, I suspect they will let you take it there.

 

[wolftimj]

From reading on this forum there seem to be a lot of members that disagree that there is not an issue. But I get it really wasn't designed to be driven on the highway and it shines off-road where it should.
So let me change the question--Has Ineos ever publicly acknowledged they are experiencing any manufacturing issues or parts performance issues anywhere on the vehicle?

After about 6 months with mine I really don't think there is much of an issue. I had my dealer max out the caster and now it drives like a truck, which it is. For more perspective I've driven nothing but Rovers for last 25 years. My other current car is a Range Rover. By choice my daily putting around car is the Grenadier. If I have to drive more than an hour or so I'll take the Rover because it's more suited for the highway.

One thing I can promise you is this. If you come to any user forum to hear a bunch of people agree on something, you've set yourself up for failure. I love mine. I'd buy it again. It is not perfect. I've never had a Rover that's perfect either. Hope this helps.

 

[007]

Why would they? There really is no issue with their design. Different does not mean wrong.
I have one on order now and I got to drive one for about 300 miles before placing my order. I really don’t understand the gripes. It feels much like my last Ram 2500 did actually. If you really want to purchase one, tell the dealer that a road test at speed on the highway is needed first. If you are serious, I suspect they will let you take it there.

Thanks for commenting I'm in a Ram 1500 4x4 and that's good information.

 

[Zimm]

The actual ride is not bad at all for the unsprung weight. I found it a pleasant surprise compared to 3/4 and 1 ton 4x4's. Is the tracking and return to center up to snuff? No. there are plenty of cars out there today and none have the complaints, any steering kickback, or the learning curve, where you have to resist constantly over correcting on the highway and fatiguing. People may make excuses, but, if nothing is truly gained, then saying its deliberate is kinda tough to support. Also, less than "normal" steering dampers have been put on and a select few have reported wobble issues. Personally I think the 4 link planes of motion permit a resonance, and the setup is a patch, but in the end, I don't really care. And why don't I care? After 500 miles, I was 99% accustomed to the factory setup. I thought I would end up under there with a torch as I'm a persnickety f**k, and really, after a few days it's cool. You'll be shocked your first drive, but it's temporary. Honestly, my biggest worry is valet parking. They drive like robots, and if caught off guard, I can see my front end in the side of someone porsche.

There a few other things you'll want to inspect like the HVAC and power steering box (do other searches). The actual handling? Unless you're severely short on coordination, don't worry about it, even part time drivers will catch on.

 

[Bruce B]

Thanks for commenting I'm in a Ram 1500 4x4 and that's good information.

Ok, be aware… a Ram 1500 uses a more car like, rack and piñon steering system. The 2500 and 3500’s use a recirculating ball type like the Grenadier. The larger trucks have solid front axels too where your 1500 does not. That is why they feel so similar to a Grenadier.
There is certainly an adjustment to your driving style that will have to be made but it is a pretty natural process.

 

[jeffmattSD]

I did replace the steering dampener with a Fox shock. I definitely like the setup with the Fox shock both offroad and on the highway. I made material difference.

 

[vtgrenadier]

Perhaps worth a rental for day? This one appears close by:

https://turo.com/us/en/suv-rental/united-states/palm-beach-fl/ineos/grenadier-station/2648496

 

[anand]

Perhaps worth a rental for day? This one appears close by:

https://turo.com/us/en/suv-rental/united-states/palm-beach-fl/ineos/grenadier-station/2648496

This is a fantastic idea

While the listing's information (12+ month waitlist in EU and US) isn't accurate at all, I would strongly suggest renting it for 3 or 4 days and see how you like it; the potential cost savings associated with not liking it and thus not buying one far outweigh the rental fees

 

[CRH]

I was worried about the steering after reading all the reviews. Had a quick test drive in one and it was odd/hard work, it seemed. Test drove another and was just given the keys to drive round the industrial estate as long as I wanted before we went on the test drive. After 10mins of driving on our own on the industrial estate my brain had already retuned itself to the steering. We then want on a test drive in a busy city, I don't know, and it was no problem. Now on near 14000 miles and I drive 1or 2 handed at 60-65mph on our motorways with no problems. Take your time in the vehicle, it's not designed to be rushed. On a sharp turn, take it slowly as you accelerate when straightening up and the steering does right itself slowly but only partially and then it will need to be turned. But just right it yourself and it's quick enough to drive normally. If you put your foot down it keeps turning, without input from you, unlike a normal car where the steering wheel rotates itself quickly to straighten up.
I looked at loads of old Defender drivers around us with very elderly male & female drivers, if they can drive them without any problems why would I have a problem in a Grenadier.
Ultimately, it's easy to drive, I jump in and out then into a 2 seat sports car then back again and it is no problem at all. I swapped a Land Rover Freelander 2 for it, so huge difference from that, but I wouldn't go back and have no regrets.

 

[trobex]

Some of you may know I complain about stuff... I am picky... I am a first world problems man. So, the RHD footrest hump is a total disaster in my view. However, the steering (which I was concerned about in the PT03 test drives) which is similarly in the production model - is quite fine.

For the first 4000-5000kms it was quite stiff, over correcting was easy, tiny bit vague at times etc. However, after the 5000km mark, the steering become settled, does not seem to wander, does not feel vague and it just generally a smoother experience. In my view, after 25000kms of ownership, the steering is respectable, albeit still a little heavy on my 'soft touch' hands and fingers.

Having said that, the RHD footrest only gets worse with time and its a fkn disaster!!!

 

[CRH]

Some of you may know I complain about stuff... I am picky... I am a first world problems man. So, the RHD footrest hump is a total disaster in my view. However, the steering (which I was concerned about in the PT03 test drives) which is similarly in the production model - is quite fine.

For the first 4000-5000kms it was quite stiff, over correcting was easy, tiny bit vague at times etc. However, after the 5000km mark, the steering become settled, does not seem to wander, does not feel vague and it just generally a smoother experience. In my view, after 25000kms of ownership, the steering is respectable, albeit still a little heavy on my 'soft touch' hands and fingers.

Having said that, the RHD footrest only gets worse with time and its a fkn disaster!!!

Whether it's my height or the way I have the seat set, it really doesn't cause me any issues at all. If it wasn't for reviews mentioning it I would probably never have given it a thought.

 

[Dokatd]

Hi I thought I'd like to buy a Grenadier and have test driven one at the local dealership. I believe they currently have about 78 in inventory. The test drive was on local roads and a park, they didn't want to head to 95. I read a lot here in the various steering threads. I don't like what I have read as I've owned a number of early Broncos that I struggled with on the highway with similar setups. So thats my story and here's the question. Has Ineos made any public statements or acknowledged there seems to be an issue with many drivers? Any statement they will be addressing an update to their parts or manufacturing?

Steering sucks but is very easily remedied with about $350-$500. No need to acquire a taste for the stock setup, buy the truck and order a new stabilizer to install immediately. It’s really not a big deal. The Grenadier will drive one finger down the highway all day long like this. The difference is night and day!!! I believe tire and wheel package effects feel a fair bit as well.

No Ineos won’t say or admit anything. I do suspect they will quietly refine the steering over time though. It’s not defective from the factory and likely meets NATO steering standards etc. It’s just goofy and kinda pointless.

 

[parb]

Steering works as designed. I think that meets the criteria of there is no issue.

Yet many people, myself included, thinks there is room for improvement. I found that changing the steering damper to the fox (non adjustable) damper made a material difference. I also found that changing the tire pressure to 36 PSI made a material difference. Combined they made the driving experience subjectively better (for me). I eventually had the dealer do a four wheel alignment. This further improved the driving experience. I have about 5,000 miles on my vehicle now.

my experience is that changing dampener made a big impact. Tire pressure a medium impact, wheel alignment a medium-big impact. All together - changed the way the car behaves significantly to the better for me.

I didn't think highway driving was bad, but it drives like an old car with hydraulic steering. You constantly hold the steering wheel and perform very small movements to keep the car centered in lane. With the changes above there is much less of that, there is limited to no need to do the micro adjustments to keep the car centered.

I think these changes are worth it because the cost involved is relatively modest. I think they reduce the task load for long distance driving on highway, and i think it improves my driving experience. As always your perception of task load and driving experience is personal so you need ot make up your own mind. I have a bunch of modern cars and a couple of old cars and am experienced with many driving systems.

I found no degradation in capability driving offroad in moab and other places with my steering dampener. I think those who state those things are making a decent theoretical point. my personal as well as a fairly large body of empirical evidence doesn't support that the offroad capability is worse. I'm sure i'm not pushing the car to the limit and perhaps its different if its pushed to the limit.

I don't see any issue with the changes i've done to the car. I've heard reports of one or two people having wobbles in their car after changing steering dampener but compare this to the large body of drivers who have made the change and only reported improvements. I suspect that those one or two had something else wrong in their vehicles and they are just correlating to a change, not thinking there may be a different underlying cause.

I would be worried about lifting the car over 2 inches. I think there is starting to be a body of evidence that the drive axle angles are too high for that much lift. The aftermarket is developing parts to deal with that but i am personally holding off lifting my car until we see more data on this.

my few cents.

 

[JGB5]

Hi I thought I'd like to buy a Grenadier and have test driven one at the local dealership. I believe they currently have about 78 in inventory. The test drive was on local roads and a park, they didn't want to head to 95. I read a lot here in the various steering threads. I don't like what I have read as I've owned a number of early Broncos that I struggled with on the highway with similar setups. So thats my story and here's the question. Has Ineos made any public statements or acknowledged there seems to be an issue with many drivers? Any statement they will be addressing an update to their parts or manufacturing?

The issue is not in the steering, it is on how drivers expect it should steer. Like the Grenadier, my older model Dodge Cummins 2500 is also body on frame, solid axle, front coil springs, with recirculating ball steering, but about 700 lbs heavier. As such, it was built for off-road and heavy duty applications. So, when I drove a Grenadier recently it behaved just like my truck, not like my much more nimble Audi allroad. Two different vehicles, two intended purposes. This is something that needs to be highlighted from the get-go for prospective buyers and casual users.