UK & Ireland Grenadier N1 Speed Limits in the UK

[G-Man]

Hi Folks,

So there's been some angst on certain FB pages recently from people cancelling their orders after unwittingly ordering a commercial N1 version of the Grenadier without realising that lower speed limits will apply, This is due to the IG weighing in over the 2,040kg limit for a 'dual purpose vehicle' which includes the likes of your Ford Ranger/VW Amarok/Toyota Hilux double cab pickups. There's a lot of theories about what you can and can't get away with in regards to average speed cameras etc, but the letter of the law seems to be open to a bit of 'interpretation'. If anyone wants the facts, I came across some very clear and concise information on the AXA insurance website that I thought would be worth sharing:

https://www.axa.co.uk/van-insurance/van-speed-limits-guide/

First, which N1 commercial vehicles CAN be driven at the maximum speed limit:

As the IG is a hefty sucker with a ~2,750kg unladen weight, it doesn't fall into either of the two categories above. Instead, it's going to be subject to the same speed restrictions as a 3.5tonne panel van:

So, in a nutshell, while you can chug along quite happily at 70mph on the motorway, you'll be obliged to drive conservatively on A-roads and dual carriageways. I hope some folks find this useful and it doesn't ruin your day

 

[Tom D]

I’m pretty sure that many double cab 4x4’s will weigh over 2050kg, depending on the spec, how are the authorities supposed to distinguish? I notice that the unladen weight doesn’t appear on the DVLA records, just the GVM..

 

[Logsplitter]

Check the thread “ none commercial version of the station wagon” this topic has been discussed extensively

 

[Hicarus]

So, in a nutshell, while you can chug along quite happily at 70mph on the motorway, you'll be obliged to drive conservatively on A-roads and dual carriageways. I hope some folks find this useful and it doesn't ruin your day

Um, been plodding our UK roads in various N1 vehicles for years now (about 53 years) with only one memorable Notice of Intended Prosecution - for jumping a speed camera at 40mph in a 50mph limit. The prat on the interpretation desk couldn't tell the differece between a caravan & N1 !
On UK roads these days, the difference between N1 speed limits and the rest seems to be controlled by granny in a road louse going shopping. I've ordered the 5 seat commercial and see no point in changing - but then, that's me. Everyone to his own.
PS. A good chunk of that 53 years was in a Series 2a 109 diesel station wagon. So maybe I was emulating the above granny.
G-man, thanks for the link and transcript.

 

[G-Man]

Check the thread “ none commercial version of the station wagon” this topic has been discussed extensively

Thanks Logsplitter I did do a search but thought that thread was more of a general discussion on N1 differences. I thought it would be good to start a thread specifically about N1 speed limits (with speed limit in the title) seeing as it had been breaking a few hearts just recently.

 

[Logsplitter]

Thanks Logsplitter I did do a search but thought that thread was more of a general discussion on N1 differences. I thought it would be good to start a thread specifically about N1 speed limits (with speed limit in the title) seeing as it had been breaking a few hearts just recently.

Yes no worries. I’ll add the link I put on that thread from Parker’s which is easy to understand and comprehensive.
Agreed It will be easier for searches with its own thread.

Van speed limits and pickup speed limits explained

Info on UK speed limits for vans, also covering pickups, dual-purpose vehicles and car-derived vans - on Parkers Vans and Pickups

www.parkers.co.uk

 

[G-Man]

I’m pretty sure that many double cab 4x4’s will weigh over 2050kg, depending on the spec, how are the authorities supposed to distinguish? I notice that the unladen weight doesn’t appear on the DVLA records, just the GVM..

Right enough, I just checked and a V6 VW Amarok weighs in at 2,169kg which is just over the DPV threshold. My guess is that your average traffic enforcer couldn't be bothered to pull over every double cab they thought was speeding just to check their weight category, but if they clocked a particular model they knew was above the DPV weight limit 'being driven with enthusiasm' then that would be easy pickings. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out, as Ineos are banking on 25% of IG's sold to be M1 Belstaffs and 75% N1 commercials so perhaps it'll be the same set up. Either way, the IG weighs in significantly heavier than your average dual cab:

 

[emax]

Though I'm as a German not affected by UK regulations, I'd be ok with the N1 limits. Driving on country roads at 50mph is imho acceptable. 30 mph in cities is normal for all cars in Germany (50 Kmh so be precise). 60mph on "dual carriageways" is indeed a bit low, but since I have my Diesel motorbike I have changed my mindset. And considering the tolerances they accept, I could live with it.

When I was young, I was insanely fast and maybe always exceeded the limits - but what else can you do with a 325i ...

If I were to calculate all the speeding I've ever done and redistribute it over my expected lifetime, I've probably already used up the higher speeds at a young age for the next few decades ;-)

Fortunately, I have no desire to drive fast anymore. Everything has its time.

But of course, a speed trap detector is still a good idea ...

 

[Too many trucks]

Been clanking around in a VW Amarok for years, well aware of the N1 over 2040kg limits, never been an issue and I've ordered a Comercial 5 seat Grenadier, no intention of changing either, road tax on 40k plus M1 a little keen!

 

[Spjnr]

Been clanking around in a VW Amarok for years, well aware of the N1 over 2040kg limits, never been an issue and I've ordered a Comercial 5 seat Grenadier, no intention of changing either, road tax on 40k plus M1 a little keen!

Same here, the Tax alone will pay the odd speeding fine

 

[Stu_Barnes]

Thread moved to the uk section

@Stu_Barnes

 

[PBD]

Stu is there a setting where I can see uk as first option? Thanks

 

[Stu_Barnes]

Stu is there a setting where I can see uk as first option? Thanks

Messaged you.

 

[Tomdoc]

Has anyone had any issues with the N1 category when opting for rear side windows instead of panels? I’m informed (admittedly on a random YT comment section!) that to comply with the letter of the UK laws, N1 regulations prohibit rear side windows. My guess is that most people will have chosen windows instead of panels. Probably a small print subject but I’m interested to hear what people think.

 

[Jeremy996]

Has anyone had any issues with the N1 category when opting for rear side windows instead of panels? I’m informed (admittedly on a random YT comment section!) that to comply with the letter of the UK laws, N1 regulations prohibit rear side windows. My guess is that most people will have chosen windows instead of panels. Probably a small print subject but I’m interested to hear what people think.

This is part of the confusion between DVLA and HMRC rules around commerciality.

For road tax, the DVLA rule and they do not care about windows.

For HMRC, windows are an issue, they need to be fixed and obscured, but as you will realise from other threads, the HMRC consider the Grenadier to be a "car", on the basis of weight and lack of payload, so they don't care about windows either!

 

[Tomdoc]

Thanks for this. I had a very similar conversation just now with my dealer. This arose from a comment on the YT video posted by Christian and Vera when Edgar visited. The guy is adamant that I cannot have rear windows as an option here in UK on an N1 Utility Wagon. Of course I do have exactly that on order.

 

[Logsplitter]

Has anyone had any issues with the N1 category when opting for rear side windows instead of panels? I’m informed (admittedly on a random YT comment section!) that to comply with the letter of the UK laws, N1 regulations prohibit rear side windows. My guess is that most people will have chosen windows instead of panels. Probably a small print subject but I’m interested to hear what people think.

My Grenadier is a two seat utility petrol with rear side windows and black out /UV protection still an N1 on the V5 document. But for personal use so no contact with HMRC

 

[Tomdoc]

Great - exactly the same intention here. I was quite surprised by the vehement response I got when I said I had one with rear windows!

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Logsplitter]

Here it is two seat

utility with rear windows

 

[Jeremy996]

Great - exactly the same intention here. I was quite surprised by the vehement response I got when I said I had one with rear windows!

View attachment 7816245



Thanks for the reply!

Mr Williams takes a fundimentalist view of what is and isn't commercial; I have had a similar argument with him on another forum. He is not actually wrong, if Ineos was targeting the UK light commercial market but so far they have ignored it as a distraction. The new Defenders also do not meet the letter of the law, but JLR lobbied, so HMRC has conceded for Defender Hardtops where there is no fixed seating.