Drowning my Grenadier (a sorry, soggy saga)

[LeonD]

Sorry to hear, hope it is sorted to your satisfaction. Just curious did you use the “wading mode”; transfer case is in low, center diff is locked and wading button pressed?

 

[Clark Kent]

I've started a DM chat with @Rok_Dr about adding a new topic to his guide about moving a disabled vehicle for recovery via flatbed.
The only Ineos documented method is the transfer case bolt which requires access underneath the vehicle which was not an option in @Jeremy996's situation. At least one NA owner has previously reported that method didn't work and he had to remove the rear prop shaft to get his vehicle onto a flatbed.

For other ZF-equipped vehicles there are a few options to get the transmission into neutral including:
1. The lever on the left side of the transmission main case (not the transfer case). Early ZF had a lever and stop bolt that was wound in to hold the lever UP. Later ZF incl. all IA vehicles have a lever that must be pulled DOWN. It's unclear if it must then be held down to keep the parking pawl disengaged. Probably, yes.
2. On earlier BMWs (c.2008) there was a latch under the shifter cover that could be toggled to force the transmission into neutral.
3. If battery power is available, late BMWs with a start/stop button can be placed into neutral using a simple sequence. IA opted to supply a keyed ignition so that option is a no-go.

We can place the transmission into neutral while the engine is running but it reverts to Park when the engine is turned off. The workaround is to use Carwash mode provided the engine can be started and left running, or at least the key left ON with battery power while the vehicle is moved. This keeps the transmission in neutral so it can be rolled or towed onto a flatbed (but not flat towed along the road). Of course getting into Carwash mode needs an operable engine with battery power.

More to follow!

 

[nuclearmonkey]

Do we know what caused the failure? Were the electronics working? (Pretty sure popping into neutral would be out of the question if not)

Best of luck!!

 

[CountyV8]

If yo need to “Drag” the vehicle a couple of bottles of washing up liquid under the wheels and winch it then wash away the mess. If it works for car theivs it can work for you.

 

[Rok_Dr]

If yo need to “Drag” the vehicle a couple of bottles of washing up liquid under the wheels and winch it then wash away the mess. If it works for car theivs it can work for you.

Or when my old range rover had a fire many years ago a liberal spray of WD40 in front of the tyres on the flat bed tray also worked.

 

[Baron von Teuchter]

Oh no, sorry to hear this Jeremy. How deep did it get?

 

[Rok_Dr]

I thought you could tow it for short distances, up to and onto a flatbed, by putting the transmission in neutral and putting the transfer leaver between high and low range unlocked.
probably turn the ignition key to first stop to unlock the steering.

The official procedure from the MY24 Australian owners manual is as follows: Reference: https://ineosautomotive.stylelabs.c...t/b4f00ac7a6ce4911b6a54e1bc5c6d664?v=2f2a9e6f, Pages 77-78 and 112-114. These instructions assume that the car is capable of selecting neutral in the automatic gearbox and is electrically active. I have also summarised/combined as neither section explains the process fully.

1. Select neutral position in the automatic gearbox.
2. Set the centre differential to the unlocked position.
   • Lift the collar on the transfer case selector and shift to a 'midpoint' between low and high range. Note that the selector will not lock into place.
   • Next, underneath the vehicle the 'neutral screw' can be found on the Two-Speed Transfer Case. The screw must be rotated clock-wise, screwing inwards until it can't go any further. Once the screw has been screwed in as far as possible, the vehicle will be in a neutral state. The 'neutral screw' can be identified by the word 'NEUTRAL' and a directional arrow, both visible on the Two-Speed Transfer Case. This will confirm the clockwise rotation, to achieve the neutral status of the vehicle.
3. 
4. Turn the key in the ignition barrel to position one, this will then unlock the steering column.
5. Release the handbrake.
6. NOTE: The key must remain in position while towing, do not try to change the position of the key in the ignition barrel, until towing has finished and the vehicle is stationary.
   CAUTION: Leaving the ignition on while towing will drain the battery, the vehicle lamps will activate for braking and directional indicating. Only drive short distances when towing the vehicle.
   WARNING: When removing the vehicle from neutral after towing or rolling, it is important that the screw is rotated anti-clockwise, but only until the screw head is flat and flush with the Two-Speed Transfer Case. Any more than this will result in severe damage to the Two-Speed Transfer Case.

What you do if you are in a flooded creek, can't get to the neutral screw and have no power is still a mystery.

Cheers
Steve

 

[ECrider]

Yesterday, about 0915 I drowned my Grenadier in a flash flood less than 6 miles from my house. This photo was taken about an hour later and the water had reduced by the height of the sill, but that does not account for the cross current and the water uplift as the Grenadier was driven along the single track road.

In retrospect, just driving into it was a dumb idea, ('No shit, Sherlock!'), but this is my usual route to work, I was late and although it does flood here at least once a year, this occurrence was special, with Fire, Police and Ambulance all declaring a "Major Incident" for Leicestershire.

View attachment 7883694
My colleagues from Leicestershire & Rutland 4x4 Response, (LR4x4R), got me and my stuff out of the truck, after we found that the truck was about as mobile as a rock and the only way to release it was the transfer box bolt, under the truck, in the swirling water. The floods were caused by the rapid melting of snow over already saturated ground, so the water was very cold and very muddy. Riggers boots are no substitute for waders or a dry suit.

One of the local residents gave me updates on the water level overnight and by the morning, the road was dry enough for scrabbling around on the floor.

View attachment 7883699

This is me disconnecting the bridle from the big strop attached to a mid '70s Series III 88", (ex RAF diesel 2.25, converted to petrol 2.25).

Then came the pain of recovery; AA/Ineos Recovery declined to assist as it was "self-inflicted"; fine, (not fine at all, they could have told me yesterday). My insurer, NFU, sent Unity of Leicester to recovery my truck to 'Storage' pending an engineering assessment and claim decision.
Timescale; recovery from the lane to the layby 0745 to 0810, 15 minutes on hold to the AA, 10 minutes useless faffing on the phone and an over-elaborate explanation where "you are on your own, Chuck!" would have been quicker and easier to understand. Final recovery by Unity at 1250.

View attachment 7883700
( I won't bore you with a picture of each side of the Gren on the recovery tray, you all know what one looks like). These are to keep the storage guys honest.

View attachment 7883703

There is the 88" and my Morgan; two vehicles, each about 50 years old to collect a youngster!

So far, NFU Insurance has been worth every penny; I will be lent a rental car for 14 days pending a claims assessment. As the truck is dry inside, I am hoping for a repair; if they write off the vehicle, I only have a small window to reclaim my personalised plate. I will need to remind them that the Grenadier has a 5 year warranty, so they need to use genuine spares and keep the receipts, as the insurance company will not use the dealer unless they absolutely have to.

Thank you for the update Jeremy at what must be a most miserable time. You must be near the front of the queue in the UK for miles driven and also using as designers intended - helping others etc.
Appreciate the nod to NFU, I will cross over to them once my current points clear off later this month. I have found them superb on all other insurance.

I drove through a cross running ford on Sunday and the road gauge said 2.5' or thereabouts. Whether that can be trusted or not, probably not as been hit a few times! I wonder if the air box is wet and whether the catcher is sodden. If it was running right to left like my ford was then any build up of water on driver's side while crossing could submerge the RAI entrance.

Fingers crossed it did not slurp in any water and it is something much easier to overcome. Best of luck.

I am first in the queue behind you for a proper snorkel to replace the RAI asap! Don't care if it makes me look like a 'bogen'!

 

[Tom D]

Sorry to hear that. That’s a nightmare!
It would be nice to know that the “snorkel” was a snorkel. When I installed mine I sealed it to the intake with silicone but there are other areas that water could get in. I still wouldn’t trust it. That’s a bit of a nightmare, it will be a very expensive repair if its a new engine, which it likely will be.

 

[Skydance]

If yo need to “Drag” the vehicle a couple of bottles of washing up liquid under the wheels and winch it then wash away the mess. If it works for car theivs it can work for you.

I’ve seen many recovery trucks just drag the vehicle onto the flat bed using their winches with the wheels locked on. I don’t think they have the time to mess around. Not saying it’s the right way but it’s how it is in reality.

 

[archerwolf]

Putting the grenadier into 'Neutral' without electrical power requires getting under the transfer case to turn the 13mm bolt. Putting the transfer case into neutral disconnects the driveline from the transmission. You don't need electrical power to put the ZF transmission into neutral to pull the Grenadier. Follow Rok_Dr's procedure above to do so. Unfortunately you have to get under the car to do this.

 

[Eric]

I’ve seen many recovery trucks just drag the vehicle onto the flat bed using their winches with the wheels locked on. I don’t think they have the time to mess around. Not saying it’s the right way but it’s how it is in reality.

Police recovery for parking/obstruction offences and repro jobs when there is no driver/keys available is just a drag job. Never seen an up-lift Hiab recovery up here thought they were limited to the big cities.

 

[Greasemonkey]

Early ZF had a lever and stop bolt that was wound in to hold the lever UP. Later ZF incl. all IA vehicles have a lever that must be pulled DOWN. It's unclear if it must then be held down to keep the parking pawl disengaged. Probably, yes.

The small lever on the left side of the ZF transmission must be pulled down and locked there. There is even a special tool from BMW for this. See pictures

 

[Tom D]

The small lever on the left side of the ZF transmission must be pulled down and locked there. There is even a special tool from BMW for this. See pictures

That’s the older version of the box. The current version doesn't have that feature.

 

[Zimm]

This all much todo about nothing. If your rig dies in a flood, open the doors and swamp it so it get totaled. Whether is electronics or water ingestion, for me at least, I don’t want the car anymore. It it was a 30yo wheeler? Ok who cares. But new car? Ya screwed up, move on, and get another.

 

[CountyV8]

Yes but that puts up all our insurance as Im with the NFU as well.

 

[Zimm]

Yes but that puts up all our insurance as Im with the NFU as well.

No, really it doesn't. It's all accounted for before rates are set, and INS co's delta on bonus's for extra profit come from claims denials. You're a drop. The scam is thinking you're all "in it together".

Besides, it's a flood. Your car has stalled in rising water and if it floats it will topple, and then its an expensive recovery that increases injury potential, and toxic fluids go into the environment. It's more responsible to you, and others to make sure it stays upright.

 

[Eric]

Yes but that puts up all our insurance as Im with the NFU as well.

And me

 

[LeeroyJ]

This all much todo about nothing. If your rig dies in a flood, open the doors and swamp it so it get totaled. Whether is electronics or water ingestion, for me at least, I don’t want the car anymore. It it was a 30yo wheeler? Ok who cares. But new car? Ya screwed up, move on, and get another.

This is called "insurance fraud" -- not sure you should be advocating this on a public forum.

 

[Zimm]

This is called "insurance fraud" -- not sure you should be advocating this on a public forum.

No it isn’t. You’re keeping the car from floating, which is dangerous to everyone else, as noted above. In rising water YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO LET THE WATER IN.

And there is no law that says you need to exit a vehicle any other way than by the doors.