Disappointing Day

[YellowLab]

I think.. the thing is if you compare the road manners of an IG to the latest SUV which are heavily compromised to being a high margin roadcar.. It's always going to loose. I'm comparing it to my defender. It's got no swaybars at all in the suspension. Rocks like a giant yacht. The turning circle is similarly compromised. Long wheelbase, solid front.

So for me would be awesome. But I can understand if you want to compare it to an SUV...

Sway bars/cross engine braces are pretty easy to install - wonder if that is an option? I'm not an auto engineer and you'll probably lose something - but if you are not going off road....

 

[YellowLab]

A very well written sentiment that reflects very much the passion we have for this vehicle as a forum, whilst still (I believe), able to accept constructive criticism. There are now enough of us out there who actually have the Grenadier at home, that any genuine concerns will soon become apparent.
For me, there are some issues most of which will be addressed by the aftermarket. Dubious plastics in certain areas, lack of USB's around the dashboard are two items that come to mind. Overall I am over the moon with my new purchase whilst fully accepting, it will not be for everyone.

I think the plastic handles (bonnet release and back door) will be a solution someone will post here shortly. 3D printing makes this so easy - and even fabrication handles from solid aluminum are an option from any CMC metal shop. I've started talking to one locally who told me bring in the plastic you want to replace and they can make a duplicate in any color aluminum I want at a reasonable price. I've been a German car driver for the last 20 years - fit/finish and material quality mean a great deal to me - so I fully plan to do small upgrades all around the vehicle as I see them.

 

[DDG]

Evomind
Can you please direct me to a couple of the positive reviews you mention? Most reviews I have read are a bit scathing of the vehicle in normal road use. As happy as I am with my Grenadier, I am looking for something from a motoring journalist that I can show to my friends. They all seem to think there are problems. Steering, footrests, windscreen wipers, noise, fuel consumption, reliability, cost, bla, bla, bla. I want one of these sycophantic reviews you talk of.

I have read every review I can find. Admittedly, I’ve been on the bandwagon from the very beginning. My preorder is submitted for a $94k example. But I totally can see what you’re saying here. There aren’t a lot of glowing reviews that a prospective buyer could read that are compelling. Yet, from where I read them, I can find the positives that I am looking for. Comments about robustness of components and build quality are easy to find. I’m not intentionally overlooking the criticisms and other obvious issues. If anything, what has been written, should give someone pause. There are definitely some compromises in the grenadier. Huge compromises if you’re comparing it directly with literally anything in the price category. My point is, it’s not an easy sales proposition to someone who isn’t intimately knowledgeable with the entire project and it’s tacitly stated “raison d’exister”. You’re buying a lifetime vehicle with the grenadier. If you don’t see that, it doesn’t make any sense (the way I see it).
The average person is not going to buy a grenadier. It’s a niche within a niche. Of the five other friends that I introduced to the project over the past six years (all six of us placed reservations) only myself and one other have placed orders. The others are waiting on refunds, but interestingly all are excited to test mine out.
Two takeaways from the current situation. 1. There won’t be a huge demand immediately. So unlikely dealers will be adding markups. 2. Ineos needs to have demonstrator vehicles available for their dealers right away

 

[YellowLab]

Evomind
Can you please direct me to a couple of the positive reviews you mention? Most reviews I have read are a bit scathing of the vehicle in normal road use. As happy as I am with my Grenadier, I am looking for something from a motoring journalist that I can show to my friends. They all seem to think there are problems. Steering, footrests, windscreen wipers, noise, fuel consumption, reliability, cost, bla, bla, bla. I want one of these sycophantic reviews you talk of.

This is my favorite video of the car - it was the first one of the Eldoret Blue and White top I found which is the color I've ordered. I'm still trying to find out what RooBar they are making for it so I can order for the US.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hby3nJxKejI


Mark

 

[YellowLab]

I have read every review I can find. Admittedly, I’ve been on the bandwagon from the very beginning. My preorder is submitted for a $94k example. But I totally can see what you’re saying here. There aren’t a lot of glowing reviews that a prospective buyer could read that are compelling. Yet, from where I read them, I can find the positives that I am looking for. Comments about robustness of components and build quality are easy to find. I’m not intentionally overlooking the criticisms and other obvious issues. If anything, what has been written, should give someone pause. There are definitely some compromises in the grenadier. Huge compromises if you’re comparing it directly with literally anything in the price category. My point is, it’s not an easy sales proposition to someone who isn’t intimately knowledgeable with the entire project and it’s tacitly stated “raison d’exister”. You’re buying a lifetime vehicle with the grenadier. If you don’t see that, it doesn’t make any sense (the way I see it).
The average person is not going to buy a grenadier. It’s a niche within a niche. Of the five other friends that I introduced to the project over the past six years (all six of us placed reservations) only myself and one other have placed orders. The others are waiting on refunds, but interestingly all are excited to test mine out.
Two takeaways from the current situation. 1. There won’t be a huge demand immediately. So unlikely dealers will be adding markups. 2. Ineos needs to have demonstrator vehicles available for their dealers right away

Interesting that given all the deliveries we are not seen more new videos posted on YouTube lately from new owners

 

[Trialmaster]

Interesting that given all the deliveries we are not seen more new videos posted on YouTube lately from new owners

Not a YouTuber, but understand your sentiment. Over to the Forum guys to start producing videos.

 

[DCPU]

I think the plastic handles (bonnet release and back door) will be a solution someone will post here shortly. 3D printing makes this so easy - and even fabrication handles from solid aluminum are an option from any CMC metal shop. I've started talking to one locally who told me bring in the plastic you want to replace and they can make a duplicate in any color aluminum I want at a reasonable price.

I'd have to look again, but from memory it's not so much the plastic handle but the means of attaching it, and the pivot it creates which means it feels flimsy. It's single shear, so a double shear bracket would tightened up the pivot "slop" if the bracket could be separately attached.

 

[YellowLab]

I'd have to look again, but from memory it's not so much the plastic handle but the means of attaching it, and the pivot it creates which means it feels flimsy. It's single shear, so a double shear bracket would tightened up the pivot "slop" if the bracket could be separately attached.

I think it is fixable but more than the handle/bracing - we have many here that are fairly handy and one day one of them will be pissed off enough that we'll find a solution. My delivery would not be until later in the year - so no tinkering for me.

I am somewhat more concerned of the folks noting the sway and roll of the vehicle. Again, something that aftermarket we hopefully find a solution via sway bars and cross supports across the engine bay as this goes forward. I've had a Cayenne Turbo and and X5M - those cars drive exceptionally flat and I'd never expect the IG to be even close or even in the same area code as one of those. My neighbor has a new Range Rover SE that is nose plow, rear leaning, body roll chaos. I'm hoping to find a demo out there over the next few months to drive more. Might be a good excuse to fly to the UK for a pub crawl and test drive weekend. I don't need to IG to be SUV like (Suave) - but also do not want to find something that is horrible to drive.

 

[Cheshire cat]

I have read every review I can find. Admittedly, I’ve been on the bandwagon from the very beginning. My preorder is submitted for a $94k example. But I totally can see what you’re saying here. There aren’t a lot of glowing reviews that a prospective buyer could read that are compelling. Yet, from where I read them, I can find the positives that I am looking for. Comments about robustness of components and build quality are easy to find. I’m not intentionally overlooking the criticisms and other obvious issues. If anything, what has been written, should give someone pause. There are definitely some compromises in the grenadier. Huge compromises if you’re comparing it directly with literally anything in the price category. My point is, it’s not an easy sales proposition to someone who isn’t intimately knowledgeable with the entire project and it’s tacitly stated “raison d’exister”. You’re buying a lifetime vehicle with the grenadier. If you don’t see that, it doesn’t make any sense (the way I see it).
The average person is not going to buy a grenadier. It’s a niche within a niche. Of the five other friends that I introduced to the project over the past six years (all six of us placed reservations) only myself and one other have placed orders. The others are waiting on refunds, but interestingly all are excited to test mine out.
Two takeaways from the current situation. 1. There won’t be a huge demand immediately. So unlikely dealers will be adding markups. 2. Ineos needs to have demonstrator vehicles available for their dealers right away

DDG
I think you possibly missed my point. I was having a go at those who say all the reviews are biased towards the Grenadier. This is not my experience. Most reviews that I read have been at best, neutral.
I own a Grenadier and love it. I expect it to see me out. I believe that in a short space of time, it will compete directly against G-Wagon for desirability. Watch this space.

 

[Tom109]

No amount of “ledgering” and “extrapolation” will shine the light on the “proper” decision. Crazy.

I drove it. It felt like my ‘96 Discovery. I was sold. I don’t expect it to be the highest rated, sweeping the competition type of popular vehicle (like the ledger-extrapolator wants). As long as it has a good prospect of reliability and Ineos continues with update campaigns I’ll be more than happy.

 

[MM in South TX]

I have read every review I can find. Admittedly, I’ve been on the bandwagon from the very beginning. My preorder is submitted for a $94k example. But I totally can see what you’re saying here. There aren’t a lot of glowing reviews that a prospective buyer could read that are compelling. Yet, from where I read them, I can find the positives that I am looking for. Comments about robustness of components and build quality are easy to find. I’m not intentionally overlooking the criticisms and other obvious issues. If anything, what has been written, should give someone pause. There are definitely some compromises in the grenadier. Huge compromises if you’re comparing it directly with literally anything in the price category. My point is, it’s not an easy sales proposition to someone who isn’t intimately knowledgeable with the entire project and it’s tacitly stated “raison d’exister”. You’re buying a lifetime vehicle with the grenadier. If you don’t see that, it doesn’t make any sense (the way I see it).
The average person is not going to buy a grenadier. It’s a niche within a niche. Of the five other friends that I introduced to the project over the past six years (all six of us placed reservations) only myself and one other have placed orders. The others are waiting on refunds, but interestingly all are excited to test mine out.
Two takeaways from the current situation. 1. There won’t be a huge demand immediately. So unlikely dealers will be adding markups. 2. Ineos needs to have demonstrator vehicles available for their dealers right away

"You’re buying a lifetime vehicle with the grenadier. "
This is EXACTLY why I placed my order. I'm looking for something that will last the ages. The problem, though, comes from the limited production. For it to be a lifetime vehicle, you have to have ready access to parts. Only time will tell if Grenadier will be there for us in 20 or 30 years.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Agree
we need to lose the theory that this is the greatest vehicle on earth and anyone who doesn't agree is wrong.
It is a particular vehicle for a particular set of applications and a particular customer type.
If it doesn't suit your needs, it doesn't mean you are wrong, it means you have different needs or wants to me.
That's why there are so many different people in the world, so everyone has the chance at a partner.

This is exactly how I feel. I don't really care if it's hyper comfortable or smells nice. It needs to do a job. The only thing I care about is of it can do the job, and be quality at the same time- build quality and capabilities. Perfect finishes are less important, but quality at what it is meant to be is #1.

 

[Ichabod]

This is exactly how I feel. I don't really care if it's hyper comfortable or smells nice. It needs to do a job. The only thing I care about is of it can do the job, and be quality at the same time- build quality and capabilities. Perfect finishes are less important, but quality at what it is meant to be is #1.

Don't disagree. But at nearly $90k for my build, it also needs to be reliable and serviceable and should be decently finished. If I just wanted something to get me somewhere I could put lockers in a clapped out K5 Blazer with a 350 that any shadetree mechanic can work on. So I am expecting a bit more...which I do think it does/will deliver on. Just hope we aren't all holding the bag in 4 years w/a Delorian-style mess.

 

[grenadierboy]

Interesting that given all the deliveries we are not seen more new videos posted on YouTube lately from new owners

Almost all Grenadiers delivered to European drivers, the majority probably UK.

It's been spring & now summer time and I guess many are overlanding/camping their Grenadiers across Europe, top to bottom and maybe even northern Africa; so hopefully we get reviews and video footage they can share on their return.

 

[grenadierboy]

I think it is fixable but more than the handle/bracing - we have many here that are fairly handy and one day one of them will be pissed off enough that we'll find a solution. My delivery would not be until later in the year - so no tinkering for me.

I am somewhat more concerned of the folks noting the sway and roll of the vehicle. Again, something that aftermarket we hopefully find a solution via sway bars and cross supports across the engine bay as this goes forward. I've had a Cayenne Turbo and and X5M - those cars drive exceptionally flat and I'd never expect the IG to be even close or even in the same area code as one of those. My neighbor has a new Range Rover SE that is nose plow, rear leaning, body roll chaos. I'm hoping to find a demo out there over the next few months to drive more. Might be a good excuse to fly to the UK for a pub crawl and test drive weekend. I don't need to IG to be SUV like (Suave) - but also do not want to find something that is horrible to drive.

I have read from recent owners that they have been surprised as to the LACK of body & sway of the Grenadier, even at speed.

 

[DCPU]

I am somewhat more concerned of the folks noting the sway and roll of the vehicle.

Where?

Again, something that aftermarket we hopefully find a solution via sway bars and cross supports across the engine bay as this goes forward.

"cross supports across the engine bay" ~ linked to what?

 

[Cheshire cat]

Almost all Grenadiers delivered to European drivers, the majority probably UK.

It's been spring & now summer time and I guess many are overlanding/camping their Grenadiers across Europe, top to bottom and maybe even northern Africa; so hopefully we get reviews and video footage they can share on their return.

I had my Grenadier for about ten days before having to go away to work for a few weeks. I am home again in a day or two and plan on a none stop round trip of several hundred miles over a period of 12 - 16 hours. I did write on here about my initial thoughts and the fact I was very happy with my Grenadier. Will report again with a more thorough account next week.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Don't disagree. But at nearly $90k for my build, it also needs to be reliable and serviceable and should be decently finished. If I just wanted something to get me somewhere I could put lockers in a clapped out K5 Blazer with a 350 that any shadetree mechanic can work on. So I am expecting a bit more...which I do think it does/will deliver on. Just hope we aren't all holding the bag in 4 years w/a Delorian-style mess.

Ohh don't get me wrong. Mine is at $85k. That's why it better not have any water in it, or falling out of it. It better be a work horse and be serviceable. But when somebody was complaining about some exposed paint in the trunk/ boot, I don't really care about that. Or if the steering is different than my truck, BUT it works and is simple, then that is what I want. Which is harder and harder to find now.

 

[YellowLab]

Where?

"cross supports across the engine bay" ~ linked to what?

I've not looked under the hood on the IG yet - but typically a metal bar can go strut tower to strut tower and remove some of the flexing. My only experience with the car is driving in the desert during one of the events. The vehicle certainly feels like a vault and did not flex at all - but have not driven it on roads to see if it is a problem. Everyone in the US and most markets is going to be speculating until we have one in the driveway to know enough about the car.

 

[Tom109]

I think flex comes back to the IG not being a performance sports car. Example: no one adds this type of bracing to Land Rover short of a Rally conversion (which is not the IG’s intended purpose).