Europe Communication is ZERO! Does anyone know what is going on? (INEOS Automotive)

[Trialmaster]

Just wait until February. Don't be so impatient. One or the other will surely get a message then.

You think? You could be right. Just don't have much confidence though, but like all of us I am prepared to be shocked. February could be correct - but why not communicate? I have a Honda CTR on order and I know when I'll get it, March - dealer has already notified me and I believe them.......

My doubt comes from no contact from either Ineos or my local dealer, which is bizarre. I expected an October delivery, then November, then January and each time no contact. Local dealer has had two driving events, one as a passenger and the other driving at Newark Machinery Show, plus the vehicle has been available to view three times locally, (its currently at the local dealers now). Guess what, I've never been told anything about any of these events. Only through Social Media and driving by - you are made aware, maybe that's how people do business these days - but it not my way.

 

[AnD3rew]

I really have been one of the most patient early customers and often a big defender against critics, but the last month to 6 weeks has really been testing that patience. I don’t doubt that a vehicle will come or that it will be great but the complete silence and mixed messaging is not as much worrying as annoying, yes that’s it I am not worried, but I am starting to get annoyed and I don’t want this company to annoy me. Having said all that I am trying to be patient and trusting that after Feb 8 all will become much clearer. So I am going to shut up now and be quiet until then. But if the communication is not huge and clear by then I will be officially annoyed.

In the meantime something that consoles me and may also give you some perspective.
I put down and early reservation payment for a Tesla CyberTruck more than a year before my reservation payment for the IG. Since then I have had zero direct communication about it from Tesla except marketing material for their other vehicles. There isn’t even an obvious way to request your reservation’s payment back. We have seen no physical prototypes let alone the ability to drive one. At this stage production appears to have slipped until at least 2024 and despite taking my reservation fee, there is no firm information that it will ever actually come to Australia.

Against that benchmark IG is 1000% better and there is a high likelihood an actual car will be in my driveway in the next few months so there’s that And Tesla for all it’s “start-up” image is now an established carmaker with sales of more than a million last year and an almost $500bn Market Cap.

 

[bemax]

You think? You could be right. Just don't have much confidence though, but like all of us I am prepared to be shocked. February could be correct - but why not communicate? I have a Honda CTR on order and I know when I'll get it, March - dealer has already notified me and I believe them.......

My doubt comes from no contact from either Ineos or my local dealer, which is bizarre. I expected an October delivery, then November, then January and each time no contact. Local dealer has had two driving events, one as a passenger and the other driving at Newark Machinery Show, plus the vehicle has been available to view three times locally, (its currently at the local dealers now). Guess what, I've never been told anything about any of these events. Only through Social Media and driving by - you are made aware, maybe that's how people do business these days - but it not my way.

It might sound hard but „if you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen“
It’s a new car by a new company. Everybody has the right to be impatient and grunty but there’s no need for a general settlement by now.
There is a lack of communication. That’s for sure. But if you really and honestly think they will stuck now I would think asking them for returning your money will be the best thing to do.
Don’t get me wrong. I do understand that it drives you crazy not to hear a reliable voice from IA right now. And I opened the „sick of waiting“ thread for the same reason. But for me it is more about the questions what will change positively in the future but for the „answers“ what is going wrong at the moment.

 

[bemax]

I really have been one of the most patient early customers and often a big defender against critics, but the last month to 6 weeks has really been testing that patience. I don’t doubt that a vehicle will come or that it will be great but the complete silence and mixed messaging is not as much worrying as annoying, yes that’s it I am not worried, but I am starting to get annoyed and I don’t want this company to annoy me. Having said all that I am trying to be patient and trusting that after Feb 8 all will become much clearer. So I am going to shut up now and be quiet until then. But if the communication is not huge and clear by then I will be officially annoyed.

In the meantime something that consoles me and may also give you some perspective.
I put down and early reservation payment for a Tesla CyberTruck more than a year before my reservation payment for the IG. Since then I have had zero direct communication about it from Tesla except marketing material for their other vehicles. There isn’t even an obvious way to request your reservation’s payment back. We have seen no physical prototypes let alone the ability to drive one. At this stage production appears to have slipped until at least 2024 and despite taking my reservation fee, there is no firm information that it will ever actually come to Australia.

Against that benchmark IG is 1000% better and there is a high likelihood an actual car will be in my driveway in the next few months so there’s that And Tesla for all it’s “start-up” image is now an established carmaker with sales of more than a million last year and an almost $500bn Market Cap.

I am with you 100% (well, I didn’t pay a deposit on a cyber truck…)

 

[Krabby]

@Stu_Barnes is a very official guy though. Rumor has it that he even has business cards!

Edit. Just been told they’re not his. Apparently on the weekends he goes to open houses and take the realtors’ cards.

 

[Jean Mercier]

- but why not communicate?

I agree completely with you, this is completely disrespectful for their customers. They could at least say it themselves "for marketing reasons we wont communicate till February 8" ... This is also communication!

... but I am starting to get annoyed and I don’t want this company to annoy me.

I opened the „sick of waiting“ thread for the same reason.

I also stay positive about the final outcome, but I am really pissed off by their "silence".

 

[Traffic]

On the contractual side, it is way more tricky. Again, looking at the EU you are facing 26 different consumer legistlations in practise, in theory only one but that's wishful thinking. Clever legal advisors will point that out and make a big holy balloo out of it, probably with reason, there are certain jurisdictions with a massive "compo culture". Contracts have to be written for each country individually and the "clever" advisor will not just draft a simple and adaptable sample, but 26 complex constructs..imagine that @ $300 or $500 an hour. It'll take its time.

This forum might give too much credit to the contract issue. It's not like they wouldn't have seen this coming.

A billion dollar, international company's in house legal team could knock this out before lunch. Heck, it wouldnt take a small commercial contracts firm with access to the normal international trade term databases much more time. The rate is probably more like $1000-1500 per hour though. . .

 

[DCPU]

This forum might give too much credit to the contract issue. It's not like they wouldn't have seen this coming.

I think some of us are on record as saying it's a sideshow.

A billion dollar, international company's in house legal team could knock this out before lunch.

That's not how Ineos companies operate ~ it's a flat structure with local autonomy; and if it was so easy, then it would be done.

 

[Ever Pragmatic]

I agree completely with you, this is completely disrespectful for their customers. They could at least say it themselves "for marketing reasons we wont communicate till February 8" ... This is also communication!


I also stay positive about the final outcome, but I am really pissed off by their "silence".

It’ll become part of the adventure of ownership knowing that we endured the Grenadier ordering process.. No corrugated road on earth will will compare to the pain of it.. Fortitude is the order of the day gentleman.

 

[AnD3rew]

This forum might give too much credit to the contract issue. It's not like they wouldn't have seen this coming.

A billion dollar, international company's in house legal team could knock this out before lunch. Heck, it wouldnt take a small commercial contracts firm with access to the normal international trade term databases much more time. The rate is probably more like $1000-1500 per hour though. . .

Yep, I think that may be one factor but I think, as these things usually, are it’s probably multiple factors, I don’t claim to have any inside knowledge but some that have been floated and are logical.
- international contract complexity
- multiple small international homologation requirements.
- final materials and features tweaks
- Enterprise software implementation issues (SAP) definitely been there
- continued chip and parts shortage/logistics issues.
- Vehicle management software finalisation changes.
- launch and marketing strategy timings (complicated by some or all of the above)

Pretty much all of them with the possible exception of the last one are reasonable, common and understandable issues that many of us with commercial experience in companies would completely understand and have experienced. The only one that is hard to overlook is the radio silence.

 

[ADVAW8S]

I feel this buying process is part of the overall marketing. we give you everything you really need and nothing you don't. you don't really need to know where you are in production queue. It's nice to know but what are you going to do with the info. Take care of big rocks and small rocks will take care of themselves. BTW, I'm in the US patiently waiting when I can get pricing and test drivers.

 

[Trialmaster]

I feel this buying process is part of the overall marketing. we give you everything you really need and nothing you don't. you don't really need to know where you are in production queue. It's nice to know but what are you going to do with the info. Take care of big rocks and small rocks will take care of themselves. BTW, I'm in the US patiently waiting when I can get pricing and test drivers.

Totally agree, forget the production date, and promise an achievable delivery date. On that note, I'll shut up and hopefully by the 8th Feb all is good.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Totally agree, forget the production date, and promise an achievable delivery date. On that note, I'll shut up and hopefully by the 8th Feb all is good.

I was being sarcastic

 

[Trialmaster]

I was being sarcastic

Sarcasm never works in print.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Sarcasm never works in print.

Sarcasm doesn't seem to work out side of New England too. The PNW can't handle my sarcasm.

 

[tnkatoy]

It's not only the direct communication with customers in relation to orders (customers who have been supporting the project over what is fast becoming years) but the most recent update at the News tab on the Ineos Grenadier website looks to be dated 02 March 2022 ... it's like the compnay has gone dark ... have we being ghosted?

Many of us have also contributed the holding and production deposits to support the project, which is, in effect, investing in the project, so it makes sense that Ineos should be giving us regular updates in relation to our investments, including when we can expect a return on our investment .

 

[joejet]

I really feel like the priority for Ineos is the press launch, more than there customers! Don't they realise that pissing us off with no updates, could be a lot worse when the press hears. Mind you I guess they have all been on a jolly playing with the cars that we have all been invested in. The dealers also seem in the dark and hopefully the bad sentiment as the days go on gets listened to. Maybe the magical 8th solves everything good reviews, customer handovers and everyone is happy. I still feel the lack of communication is bad and it takes away any long term confidence in the servicing and support in the future. Say you have a major fault is this how we will be treated. I still want my car and hope it lives up to the hype but every day I feel less and lees like a customer and more like a mug.

 

[Tazzieman]

every day I feel less and lees like a customer and more like a mug.

Maybe the agent can throw in a branded mug or 2 for us early adopters/beta testers/non risk averse folk.

 

[joejet]

I think the only free thing is the lanyard from the offroad test drive.

 

[AnD3rew]

I think the only free thing is the lanyard from the offroad test drive.

Wait what? I didn’t get a lanyard I did get a T shirt though from the first 2b protype ride along.