co2 emissions

[kostas]

What about the co2 emissions? Major thing for the European market. 

 

[dominicperry]

I've been trying to work out the likely miles per gallon, and the only 'real-world' reference I can find is the X5 with the 3l diesel (which uses the B57 engine in the 2018-on model). The X5 is more aerodynamic and lighter, but is still fundamentally an SUV. From Honest John's Realmpg, you get a figure reported by users of 34.3 mpg (UK measures). Kerb weight is 2060–2510 kg (across the whole range of X5's). Gross vehicle weight reported by Parkers is 2860 kg for that model.
It's the same engine and gearbox, but tuned differently. X5 produces 261 hp with the 3l diesel. CO2 emissions are 162 g/km for that model.
The X7 is probably closer in size and weight to the Grenadier, but there are no "realmpg" figures for it.
Parkers describe its minimum kerb weight as 2370 kg, and gross vehicle weight as 3220 kg. Same engine, also 261 hp, as you'd expect, with CO2 emissions of 171 g/km.

Taking the older, heavy, square Discovery 4 (LR4) with 3l diesel, designed some time ago (but figures from the 2016 version of the engine with AdBlue - SDV6)Minimum kerb weight - 2622 kg, gross vehicle weight - 3300 kg, with 256 hp.
Realmpg reports 28.5 mpg (UK) and 203 g/km CO2.  

So my best guess is that the Grenadier will be between 25-35 mpg, and 170-200 g/km CO2, and probably towards the bad end of both scales, given the big transfer box and heavyweight running gear. 

 

[kostas]

Wow. Thanks for the answer. I was thinking that it would be  a little more than the bmw x7 . 170 to 200 g/km in my country means 140 to 170 euros annual road tax. Very good for such a monster. 

 

[Jeremy996]

An article in Autocar that may add to the story,  https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-dealership%2C-sales-and-marketing/why-van-versions-ineos-grenadier-help-co2-rules

Being a van gives a loophole in the UK/EU CO2 rules.

 

[AWo]

In the EU all manufacturers have to announce their fleet emissions and car weights to the EU commission. They check these numbers and calculate the allowed amount of CO2 for the single manufacturer or a group of manufacturers (when they created a group solely for emission calculation) for the past year. So in 2023 all manufacturers announced their numbers for 2022, the commission EU calculates, waits for manufactutrers being late etc. Then they present a preliminary calculation to the manufacturers. Then they can respond to that, clear erros, etc. On 31. October at the latest, the numbers have to be fixed. So for 2022 the number were fixed in March 2024 and publicly announced in order 2024/865 in an official EU journal (called "Amtsblatt" in German), which I just finished reading. If the cars of a manufacturers produced more CO2 than allowed, they have to pay a fee of 95 Euro per gramm CO2 over the limit per registered car.

From 2025 on, you need to have a minimum percentage of 15% registrations (threshold) of ZLEVs (Zero or low emission vehicle) to gain 1% CO2 reduction on fleet emissions per 1% above the threshold. That will increase to a 35% threshold in 2030. Ineos has still none.

It will be interesting how and if the numbers will be calculated for Ineos in 2024/20205 for 2023, their first year in market. For 2023 and 2024 the "Supercredit" regulation applies, that means, from the first registered ZLEV you can reduce your fleet emission. by 7,5 Gramm CO2 per ZLEV. Ineos had none ZLEV.

Manufacturers which have new car registrations up to 2028 between 10,000 and 300,000 per year can ask for an exception in the way how their numbers get calculated (EU Order 2029/613, addendum I, 1-4 and 6.3). The percentage regulation (6.3 in EU Order 2019/613) from 2025 will also not apply to them.
Manufacturers which get less that 10,000 M1 and 22,000 N1 registered in the EU can ask to become a complete exception. But that also depends if their are part of an manufacturer group and if that group still is within these numbers or not. But that only applies up to 2028.

These regulations and the obligation to announce the emissions do not apply to manufacturers with less than 10,000 registrations of new cars with the EU.

AWo