Americas Build Quality

[Skydance]

Actually the plastics are tough and cheap to replace (whole ethos is it’s a farmers car). What I can’t forgive is the plastics in the boot and plastics on the outside bump rails are warped and doesn’t fit correctly with precision. Also what annoys me the most is the centre dashboard stack below the screen creaks endlessly if the music is turned off (weather dependent especially in the cold). I have a Suzuki Jimny Gen 4 with cheap plastics but at least it doesn’t creak and everything it well built.

 

[YellowLab]

Yeah - weird. The list is a bit topsy-turvy this year. Be interesting to compare it to other publications, but I don't have the time to do that right now.

Yes - the JD Powers list is all about initial quality, based on number of returns to the dealer within the first 100 days of ownership (if I remember correctly). That is how they publish it each year with results for that same year. It is not a long-term reliability rating.

Long-term reliability can be tricky to evaluate in some vehicle categories. For example, Ford, Chevy, and Ram make heavy duty pickup trucks (e.g. Ford F-250, F-350, and the equivalents from Chevy and Ram). Toyota does not make a heavy duty truck. Work vehicles in America are overwhelmingly heavy duty pickup trucks, as are all the fleet vehicles used in construction, landscaping, etc.. - and Americans don't use vehicles like a Grenadier for work, the way they do in Europe. Work/fleet vehicles get abused; a diesel truck might get left idling all day long at a job site so that it is warm inside the vehicle in the winter, or cool in the summer - when guys go on break; this is disastrous for modern diesel emission systems. People drive fleet vehicles like they are not their own - because usually they are not. But when it comes time to compare reliability, the big three American truck makers get compared to Toyota, and by comparison, there are very few Tundras or Tacomas used in work fleets.

Another category in which long-term reliability can get skewed is comparing a manufacturer like Porsche to Chevy, Ford, etc. Some Porsche are daily driven for sure, but a lot of the higher-end Porsche sports cars are driven only when its nice out, and maybe only on the weekend. These low-mileage vehicles, owned by people who have the money to do all the required maintenance (which prevents problems), get compared to daily drivers that are getting thrashed, and that don't get their oil changed. Porsche often comes out ranked very high in the list of reliability by manufacturer, but if you were to run them the same as a Malibu or Corolla, would that hold true?

I'm not knocking Porsche, or suggesting that there are no differences in quality between brands. There are some pretty obvious differences in quality between brands. But the bottom line is - none of the reliability studies are perfect. The key is to understand what is being evaluated, and how, and whether or not that is actually relevant to you.

On the Porsche front - especially the 911 - those cars are meant to be driven every day - bullet proof as far as reliable. The interesting part though is where they share platforms. Look at the Porsche Macan - which is an Audi Q5, which is a VW Tiguan. And the Audi Q7 which is the VW Titan which is the Bentley Bentaga. Even more insane with US auto makers - what car are we even buying anymore? Even on the Rolls Royce side - buy one and you are basically buying the mechanicals of a 7 Series BMW with a high end interior...

 

[Tazzieman]

Remember , as Jim said , ir's a G wagen for 1/3 of the price.
And you won't feel like a cockhead driving it around.
Maybe the posh version Fieldmaster should come with alcantara and quilted leather everywhere , and then you pay 1/2 G wagen price.
Personally my Trialmaster feels fancy enough for the purposes for which I bought it. Not to mention despite the price, to me it's very good value.

 

[grenadierboy]

Remember , as Jim said , ir's a G wagen for 1/3 of the price.
And you won't feel like a cockhead driving it around.
Maybe the posh version Fieldmaster should come with alcantara and quilted leather everywhere , and then you pay 1/2 G wagen price.
Personally my Trialmaster feels fancy enough for the purposes for which I bought it. Not to mention despite the price, to me it's very good value.

Agree re: dickhead factor & the "gimmick" quality plastic roof rails that my rack covers.

However, re: build quality, after +5,000KM driven two build issues:
1. In wonderful contrast to the overall "tank like" construction of the vehicle; the low quality & poorly fitted centre consol switches/knobs, especially the round ones - I mean they are made of super cheap thin plastic, are loosely attached and feel like they could break off at any time. Why?

2. My driver & front passenger doors vibrate a lot at the top of the frame & "break" or pop against the inside rubber seal making lots of noise. Why?

 

[JonSutton]

My dealer told me that the demos are 2023 Grenadiers, that are basically from the prototype fleet. The demos will not have any of the "advanced safety suite" that are required in the 2024 models that we would be purchasing. So no autonomous braking, no lane-keep assist, and no "drowsy driver detection". If any additional changes have been made for 2024, those will not be present in the demo vehicles. But the demos now have to be licensed in order to do on-road test drives, so that info is a little fuzzy.

Having test driven a Trialmaster last week @ Regal it defo seemed to be a 23 model year just like my UK vehicle. The only differences I noticed were steering wheel on the wrong side of the vehicle, 18” rims and petrol (gas) power, which was rather quick vs diesel. Did not appear to have had software updates either, which for my UK motor removed the oddball warnings/lights, etc. I think folk Stateside will love em, especially vs ND and Jeep (if I dare say such a thing).

 

[cjsmith]

My biggest problem with the Power Wagon is that it’s a Chrysler product and by nature is an absolute piece of sh^t quality and build wise. I made previous posts about “my” Chrysler product experience and U.S. lemon laws. Best part of a Chrysler product is when you finally tick the lemon law box they (Chrysler) put up zero fight.

On another note, I 100% agree with the plastics. I however cannot wait until I get to write a $96k-ish check in the next few weeks

Sorry to hear about your bad Chrysler experience. On the other hand, I have a 2015 RAM Rebel I bought new, never had a significant problem (tear in seat cover in extremely cold weather). Truck has 132,000 trouble free miles. Has been my best vehicle so far. Hoping the Grenadier will be even better.

 

[Sekurt]

Sorry to hear about your bad Chrysler experience. On the other hand, I have a 2015 RAM Rebel I bought new, never had a significant problem (tear in seat cover in extremely cold weather). Truck has 132,000 trouble free miles. Has been my best vehicle so far. Hoping the Grenadier will be even better.

Perhaps mine was manufactured just prior to the last UAW strike. Just an absolute horrible ownership experience

 

[moosetown]

Things have changed I think. I have multiple friends with Power Wagons, and they love them. Most have gone back to the dealer for something minor a couple of times in three to four years of ownership, but otherwise, they all say its the best truck they've ever owned. JD Powers is just one measure, and of course they are not the final say, but check out reliability for 2023 (below). Dodge and Ram are ranked first and second for reliability - meaning they have the fewest problems of any manufacturer in America. Jeep is better than the national average, but not great. This is also the first year in quite a while that Land Rover hasn't been dead last, so maybe things are looking up there. Big drops for both Toyota and Lexus, which have historically been in the top five.
View attachment 7832617

Initial quality is not reliability.

 

[IG_in_AZ]

Remember , as Jim said , ir's a G wagen for 1/3 of the price.
And you won't feel like a cockhead driving it around.
Maybe the posh version Fieldmaster should come with alcantara and quilted leather everywhere , and then you pay 1/2 G wagen price.
Personally my Trialmaster feels fancy enough for the purposes for which I bought it. Not to mention despite the price, to me it's very good value.

I was dropping off my Kia Niro for service and repair today and while waiting for my wife to pick me up, I was looking around the showroom. They had 3 Kia models (GTLine) priced at or over $64K! Given that my nearly loaded Grenny is right at $93K (no contrast frame or roof), I'd say we're getting a deal.

They've gotten their build quality up, but the plastic in my Kia still feels cheap.

 

[255/85]

While the positives were higher than the negatives - couple things stuck out to me 1) Cheap plastics on a near $100K vehicle

Respectfully, it's a $72K vehicle. There's nothing implied in upspeccing the rig to six figures. There's just no rational reason we should expect upscale amenities or finer interior materials for buying lockers or wiring or a winch. With the higher priced build you're mostly paying for mechanical add-ons.

In my view Ineos wasted my money on trying to gussy up the interior with a questionable "fancy" dash and "fancy" door cards. The vehicle entry price could have been $1500 less if they'd kept to single color/single piece dash and door panels rather than the 4 color design fumble they delivered trying to please all palates. Better to have offered a lower spec interior with the cloth seats and an high end option of some refinement to accompany the leather seats for those that desire it and have the bucks.

With flooring I want chunky and easily removable - not subtle fitment with small tags and tails that will be torn off in short order or - worse yet - need screw-down trim pieces to be held safely in place. That approach will trap dirt and promote rust because it takes too long to get everything apart to clean. Thick, molded vinyl flooring which holds its shape regardless of temperature swings and deeply ribbed rubber footwell mats fits the bill. Carpeted mats can be tossed in for the occasional night out.

 

[Tazzieman]

How many times have you heard the word "UTILITARIAN" used when people talk about the Grenadier?
That's been spruiked by IA since day 1 .
The interior plastics are fine , as they are on my wife's Volvo EV rocketship, which was not cheap, but not "premium quality".
If you need a car to look and feel like your dream lounge room , well maybe Bentley Bentayga or G wagen is your fit. There's a few cheapo ones kicking around the world , though Australians pay double or triple for the privilege.

 

[trobex]

How many times have you heard the word "UTILITARIAN" used when people talk about the Grenadier?
That's been spruiked by IA since day 1 .
The interior plastics are fine , as they are on my wife's Volvo EV rocketship, which was not cheap, but not "premium quality".
If you need a car to look and feel like your dream lounge room , well maybe Bentley Bentayga or G wagen is your fit. There's a few cheapo ones kicking around the world , though Australians pay double or triple for the privilege.

People are paying $95K for a Ford Raptor... have you seen the plastics in that vehicle. The Gren is fine.

 

[Shopkeep]

So test drove a new Field Master (120 Miles on it) at the dealer. Drove better than I expected with zero body roll or nose plow - and steering was better than I expected - seems it will be easy to get used to after the first return to center makes you see your life flash before you if not ready. A 3 point turn though would need a few more numbers (23 point?) as the turning radius is not quite as crisp as the current CVN-Gerald Ford class of US aircraft carriers.

While the positives were higher than the negatives - couple things stuck out to me 1) Cheap plastics on a near $100K vehicle - looks like the same level one would find in a North Korean rental car - disappointing - poor fit and finish in many places - the rear deck floor was bubbled in several places. 2) Build quality - overall very solid - great door slams - its build like a tank, very nice leather seats and rear leg room. The Rails at the roof on the other hand are an absolute embarrassment; literally looked like a 4 year old loaded with espresso who just got off a roller coaster was told to make them nice and straight - more waves over the length of the vehicle than should be allowed; Mercedes would fire someone for that level of incompetence. 3) Gas filler cover - absolute rubbish - again Ineos - have some shame. 4) Multiple warning alarms going off that even the dealer could not explain - rear seatbelt warning was going off for the first 1/2 of the drive. Very torn walking away from the drive -I truly love the concept and have been here since day 1 and really want one of these. Can even get mentally beyond the MPG of a lumber truck...

Picked up my Gren today (Trialmaster VIN 47XX); the overall build quality, fit and finish is excellent and well above my expectation (I might have read a few too many doom and gloom posts on this forum). The dash plastics suit the intended purpose of the vehicle and are fine, the top of the dash and doors are done in a soft touch vinyl which is well executed and looks premium enough to me. The plastics on the lower vertical panels are harder but I like the textures used and they feel like they will last. My previous long term car was a 2018 Mustang GT and the trim plastics in the Gren feel superior in both fit and finish.

I went for the utility flooring which is a robust and heavy plastic/vinyl but it is well fitted in most areas (only rough part is in the rear passenger floor sides where it meets the seat sub frame). The carpet mats take the edge off the vinyl flooring and are easily removed for a quick clean out when required. The flooring in the rear load space is perfectly made and fitted with no bubbling or rough edges. The plastics on the side in the rear load area are hard but what else would they be? They need to stand up to daily use and abuse and they appear fit for purpose.

I went for the utility/standard seat trim which looks and feels fantastic, but maybe this is a better match for the rest of the interior? If you specced leather and full carpet I could (maybe) see how you might feel some of the plastics are not a good match.

The rails (as in gutters) on mine are nice and straight, I have cross bars fitted and there are slight bows in the rubber trim where they mount but they feel very solid. Maybe they have improved quality in the later production runs, my build date was 20th July.

 

[Tazzieman]

People are paying $95K for a Ford Raptor... have you seen the plastics in that vehicle. The Gren is fine.

No I haven't sniffed inside one of those. I've never lusted to be part of the Ford tribe

 

[255/85]

No I haven't sniffed inside one of those. I've never lusted to be part of the Ford tribe

Chebby!

Seriously though, I've never even opened the door on a new truck since about 2013 'cause, you know, money. The Grenadier is more than fancy enough for us.

Thanks for the review @Shopkeep!

 

[Tom109]

No I haven't sniffed inside one of those. I've never lusted to be part of the Ford tribe

I don’t buy or own American vehicles, unless they are 50+ years old.

 

[trobex]

Good review on the test drive. Pretty much sums up a few of my other thoughts. The fuel cover is terrible and I'm going to ask my dealer if they can realign it. It sags enough that it basically can touch the lower body panel of you are not being careful. That and the few entry level stuff ups in the interior such as storage, RHD footrest intrusion, several warped dash plastics, transfer lever plastics, poor tilt andc reach adjustment. Basic cockpit design you would expect in a $20K Cherry... still love the truck.

 

[Tazzieman]

The fuel cover is terrible and I'm going to ask my dealer if they can realign it.

Look at the mechanism - not possible. It's non adjustable.

 

[cjsmith]

Will be going to RDS in Newtown Square, PA on Thursday for first look at the Grenadier and a demo drive. Any suggestions for what I should be looking for? I want to see if the steering is the problem some people think it is (I had an old CJ5, doubt its worse than that), check the height of the vehicle to see if it will fit in my garage, and just experience what I've only read about.

 

[Drausch1976]

Steering is fine. Takes a minute and then all good. Drives well and solid. Had it on the highway doing 75-80 and cruises just fine. Big flat arm
Rest on the door is great. Apple CarPlay worked perfect. Plastic floor bits are not great, but whatever. Ordered the Urban single tube side steps today(stocked in Tennessee ) no real place to store an iPhone but will sort that. Cup holders were a concern for a lot of ppl but they got a venti ice coffee so all good there. Drives better than my 95’ defender. I won’t need a blanket on my lap in the winter like in the defender. Had a gwagon as well and this is not that dissimilar at the end of the day. The fit and finish on that was better but that’s not why I ordered the Gren. Hopefully you’ll love it. It’s not like anything else honestly.