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Americas Build Quality

YellowLab

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You there in the USofA have it good. You see, here in Oz, we have a massive right hand drive footrest that pushes our left foot and leg in to our chest... exaggeration maybe but it's a thing!! I'll take a poorly fitted piece of floor vinyl any day!!!
Totally understand that - every once in while I’ll find a car that does some weird angle with one of the feet - ends up bothering my back.
 

Tom109

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It looks pretty good off the lot, and while driving I cannot look at the rear seat plastic or the loadspace area. The interior will also get heavily used, and likely very worn over time, so overall not an issue for me. Don't even get me started with that Dodge RAM crap - I wouldn't take one if it was free.
 

YellowLab

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It looks pretty good off the lot, and while driving I cannot look at the rear seat plastic or the loadspace area. The interior will also get heavily used, and likely very worn over time, so overall not an issue for me. Don't even get me started with that Dodge RAM crap - I wouldn't take one if it was free.
Every day someone at JLR wakes up to thank god their quality does not suck as bad as dodge
 

Stu_Barnes

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Unfortunately, the interior of our new Grenadier will be covered top-to-bottom in baby poop, infant formula, and dog hair (from our 2 yellow labs) - so, I'm glad the interior is fit for my crappy purposes.
Just emerged from the baby poop and formula stage. It doesn’t get any more hygienic. So wipe down materials are a must for me, or should that be the kids?
As for the dog, I don’t want to even get into his personal habits.
 

GrenADV

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Just emerged from the baby poop and formula stage. It doesn’t get any more hygienic. So wipe down materials are a must for me, or should that be the kids?
As for the dog, I don’t want to even get into his personal habits.
Totally agreed. Band of brothers, Stu - hang in there, we'll get through it...someday. Keep calm, and Grenny on.
 

Drausch1976

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Remember that the dealer rigs are pre production. So hopefully some of the alarms and even crappy cuts on the plastic floor trim pieces will be better. I’ve had a few visits now and noted many of these poor cuts and have starting looking for black rubber trim pieces that can be fitted to complete the look. Roof rack will hide those roof bars. And finally if you were a defender owner previously (NAS D90 1995 for me) this is all a huge upgrade in all ways. Plus many of fun projects to upgrade will keep me out of trouble for a while.
 
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My biggest problem with the Power Wagon is that it’s a Chrysler product and by nature is an absolute piece of sh^t quality and build wise. I made previous posts about “my” Chrysler product experience and U.S. lemon laws. Best part of a Chrysler product is when you finally tick the lemon law box they (Chrysler) put up zero fight.

On another note, I 100% agree with the plastics. I however cannot wait until I get to write a $96k-ish check in the next few weeks
Things have changed I think. I have multiple friends with Power Wagons, and they love them. Most have gone back to the dealer for something minor a couple of times in three to four years of ownership, but otherwise, they all say its the best truck they've ever owned. JD Powers is just one measure, and of course they are not the final say, but check out reliability for 2023 (below). Dodge and Ram are ranked first and second for reliability - meaning they have the fewest problems of any manufacturer in America. Jeep is better than the national average, but not great. This is also the first year in quite a while that Land Rover hasn't been dead last, so maybe things are looking up there. Big drops for both Toyota and Lexus, which have historically been in the top five.
jd-power-dependability-2023.jpg
 
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Trialmaster

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My head is in the same place - more right than wrong here. And the point our colleague from down under ‘shopkeep‘ notes it the insides are design to be washed out. The roof rails were very disappointing though - like a really bad haircut…
I agree the roof rails appear to be more decoration than functional. Would prefer something more substantial (aftermarket maybe). Mine are straight through.
 

YellowLab

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I agree the roof rails appear to be more decoration than functional. Would prefer something more substantial (aftermarket maybe). Mine are straight through.
I would hope that the dealer demos are still prototypes as some mentioned; though I find it might not be the case since they were all licensed vehicles.
 

Hannes01

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Things have changed I think. I have multiple friends with Power Wagons, and they love them. Most have gone back to the dealer for something minor a couple of times in three to four years of ownership, but otherwise, they all say its the best truck they've ever owned. JD Powers is just one measure, and of course they are not the final say, but check out reliability for 2023 (below). Dodge and Ram are ranked first and second for reliability - meaning they have the fewest problems of any manufacturer in America. Jeep is better than the national average, but not great. This is also the first year in quite a while that Land Rover hasn't been dead last, so maybe things are looking up there. Big drops for both Toyota and Lexus, which have historically been in the top five.
View attachment 7832617
Can‘t believe that!
alfa Romeo on 3. place 🤣
porsche on 5. 😂
 
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I would hope that the dealer demos are still prototypes as some mentioned; though I find it might not be the case since they were all licensed vehicles.
My dealer told me that the demos are 2023 Grenadiers, that are basically from the prototype fleet. The demos will not have any of the "advanced safety suite" that are required in the 2024 models that we would be purchasing. So no autonomous braking, no lane-keep assist, and no "drowsy driver detection". If any additional changes have been made for 2024, those will not be present in the demo vehicles. But the demos now have to be licensed in order to do on-road test drives, so that info is a little fuzzy.
 
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Can‘t believe that!
alfa Romeo on 3. place 🤣
porsche on 5. 😂
Yeah - weird. The list is a bit topsy-turvy this year. Be interesting to compare it to other publications, but I don't have the time to do that right now.

Yes - the JD Powers list is all about initial quality, based on number of returns to the dealer within the first 100 days of ownership (if I remember correctly). That is how they publish it each year with results for that same year. It is not a long-term reliability rating.

Long-term reliability can be tricky to evaluate in some vehicle categories. For example, Ford, Chevy, and Ram make heavy duty pickup trucks (e.g. Ford F-250, F-350, and the equivalents from Chevy and Ram). Toyota does not make a heavy duty truck. Work vehicles in America are overwhelmingly heavy duty pickup trucks, as are all the fleet vehicles used in construction, landscaping, etc.. - and Americans don't use vehicles like a Grenadier for work, the way they do in Europe. Work/fleet vehicles get abused; a diesel truck might get left idling all day long at a job site so that it is warm inside the vehicle in the winter, or cool in the summer - when guys go on break; this is disastrous for modern diesel emission systems. People drive fleet vehicles like they are not their own - because usually they are not. But when it comes time to compare reliability, the big three American truck makers get compared to Toyota, and by comparison, there are very few Tundras or Tacomas used in work fleets.

Another category in which long-term reliability can get skewed is comparing a manufacturer like Porsche to Chevy, Ford, etc. Some Porsche are daily driven for sure, but a lot of the higher-end Porsche sports cars are driven only when its nice out, and maybe only on the weekend. These low-mileage vehicles, owned by people who have the money to do all the required maintenance (which prevents problems), get compared to daily drivers that are getting thrashed, and that don't get their oil changed. Porsche often comes out ranked very high in the list of reliability by manufacturer, but if you were to run them the same as a Malibu or Corolla, would that hold true?

I'm not knocking Porsche, or suggesting that there are no differences in quality between brands. There are some pretty obvious differences in quality between brands. But the bottom line is - none of the reliability studies are perfect. The key is to understand what is being evaluated, and how, and whether or not that is actually relevant to you.
 
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Voader - Oudersopzwier

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Check directly with Black Sheep before ordering as the mounting system for the Molle panels was originally not compatible with the steel panels, they only work with the glass rear windows (unless this has recently changed).
I have ordered them anyway, I let you know if it works. I do think it will work as the window trim is the same.
 
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