Black Sheep Inovations

[DenisM]

From early on Ineos has mentioned how the flat roof with rub strips creates new possibilities for carrying things on the roof. It appears to me that the BlackSheep roof rack design takes advantage of the roof design by resting the platform on these strips and not just blindly following earlier gutter support design that lift the roof rack well above the top surface. I know from earlier responses that some have questioned whether such an approach may be flawed with concerns that it would constantly rub and cause issues so I guess it will be interesting to see how such a new approach to roof rack support pans out in the field.

The "rubbing" I was referring to was the abrasion effect of the (aluminium) checker plate surface against the load carried on it, not necessarily the roof structure underneath. From experience with checker plate floor in a box trailer, even "secured" items were quickly damaged through constant vibration, especially jerry cans (steel and HDPE), cardboard boxes, canvas items fared marginally better because they had some "give", ultimately however, they also developed wear patches at the contact points. The rest of the design has clever aspects.

 

[AZGrenadier]

It looks like a fantastic idea to me. Also helps insulate the vehicle from the sun with the air gap, at least while moving. If it is relatively quiet I honestly don’t see a real big downside to something like this. Less lashing points for sure but I am sure that can be worked around.

 

[MrMike]

That could be exactly what I need for long distance remote travel given the tank is only 90 litres. Someone correct me if I'm wrong (probably am with this oversimplification...) but I believe it's illegal to carry stuff on the side of the vehicle in Aus?

@ATP what "stuff" are you referring to? If its fuel there is no law against it (was covered just recently in another post)

 

[MrMike]

It looks like a fantastic idea to me. Also helps insulate the vehicle from the sun with the air gap, at least while moving. If it is relatively quiet I honestly don’t see a real big downside to something like this. Less lashing points for sure but I am sure that can be worked around.

My concern is it lack of structural integrity for AU conditions, it was developed in the EU for their market after all, IMO this is not for long distance outback expedition travel , these are developed for trail drivers

 

[MrMike]

It's also 3cm in height. Talk about keeping a low profile to the roof. The hurdle with trucks this size is you add a good 152mm plus the height of from the attachment kit. Which usually makes the height 300mm higher. That puts the truck well over 2150mm tall

I've measured to IG with the rack, it comes to 2110mm

 

[ADVAW8S]

I've measured to IG with the rack, it comes to 2110mm

Thank you, I was guessing the attachment height.

 

[bigleonski]

That could be exactly what I need for long distance remote travel given the tank is only 90 litres. Someone correct me if I'm wrong (probably am with this oversimplification...) but I believe it's illegal to carry stuff on the side of the vehicle in Aus?

Not sure on legality (although discussed previously) but for providing serious range extension that Aussies need, they’re largely useless as they don’t hold much. I’ve carried 100+L of fuel on the roof in jerries before. 2 of those things wouldn’t be giving you much extra range for the effort and expense.
And can you imagine how long that would last on serious corrugations before it became something someone else finds lying on the track long after you’ve gone. The Black Sheep stuff is pretty, but I doubt it’s particularly robust.

 

[DaveB]

The "rubbing" I was referring to was the abrasion effect of the (aluminium) checker plate surface against the load carried on it, not necessarily the roof structure underneath. From experience with checker plate floor in a box trailer, even "secured" items were quickly damaged through constant vibration, especially jerry cans (steel and HDPE), cardboard boxes, canvas items fared marginally better because they had some "give", ultimately however, they also developed wear patches at the contact points. The rest of the design has clever aspects.

put down a bit of rubber mat

 

[grenadierboy]

My concern is it lack of structural integrity for AU conditions, it was developed in the EU for their market after all, IMO this is not for long distance outback expedition travel , these are developed for trail drivers

I guess the only why of assessing is getting exact specifications of the BS rack, including materials used etc. and comparing to the potentially more robust racking systems (or of course - buying one & using it in the harshest Australian conditions.)

I was under the impression that such conditions do eventually destroy all/most roof racks?

 

[DCPU]

From early on Ineos has mentioned how the flat roof with rub strips creates new possibilities for carrying things on the roof. It appears to me that the BlackSheep roof rack design takes advantage of the roof design by resting the platform on these strips and not just blindly following earlier gutter support design that lift the roof rack well above the top surface. I know from earlier responses that some have questioned whether such an approach may be flawed with concerns that it would constantly rub and cause issues so I guess it will be interesting to see how such a new approach to roof rack support pans out in the field.

Definitely thinks it's good to see someone doing something different; and those grab rails were screaming out to be used for such an application. Is it definite that it actually sits on the rubber strips? I've not seen any words or photos to confirm it does.

My only *slight* concern would be whether reducing the gap to the roof actually makes any wind noise generated louder.

Agree with the comments regarding chequerplate for the surface. You really want a high friction surface to help things stay put but not so tough it wears holes in your kit.

 

[TheDocAUS]

I guess the only why of assessing is getting exact specifications of the BS rack, including materials used etc. and comparing to the potentially more robust racking systems (or of course - buying one & using it in the harshest Australian conditions.)

I was under the impression that such conditions do eventually destroy all/most roof racks?

I had a Rhino Pioneer Platform on my Nissan Patrol for 11 years. It withstood corrugations for all those years, over 130,000 kms traveled much of them remote.

It even stayed on the roof of the car when I had the accident, where the combined impact speed was 150-180 kph. I was amazed to see the solar panel mounted on the rack was not cracked or damaged. The Pioneer Platform had moved about 15cm forward and the six anchor points were still in place, although the one above the driver’s door was only just attached (as the roof was bent by the impact). The car was written off.

The Pioneer Platfrom comes with the INEOS, but it has more anchor points (from memory). I thought the gutter on the IG was not as strong as the Patrol.

 

[DaveB]

I guess the only why of assessing is getting exact specifications of the BS rack, including materials used etc. and comparing to the potentially more robust racking systems (or of course - buying one & using it in the harshest Australian conditions.)

I was under the impression that such conditions do eventually destroy all/most roof racks?

corrugations are the biggest destroyer of roof racks because in reality the contact points that hold them up off the roof carry all the load and stress.
Screws & rivets also work loose or break.
On the BS unit the entire roof carries the load and vibrations should be dampened by the roof rubber strips.
Still going to have the issue of screws and rivets however so Loctite may be required.
I can't see why you couldn't drill and bolt through the chequerplate for special loads

 

[DaveB]

I had a Rhino Pioneer Platform on my Nissan Patrol for 11 years. It withstood corrugations for all those years, over 130,000 kms traveled much of them remote.

It even stayed on the roof of the car when I had the accident, where the combined impact speed was 150-180 kph. I was amazed to see the solar panel mounted on the rack was not cracked or damaged. The Pioneer Platform had moved about 15cm forward and the six anchor points were still in place, although the one above the driver’s door was only just attached (as the roof was bent by the impact). The car was written off.

The Pioneer Platfrom comes with the INEOS, but it has more anchor points (from memory). I thought the gutter on the IG was not as strong as the Patrol.

The main issue with Rhino is they derate by 50% for off road use and most owners don't realise that and load them up.
Only to discover they are not covered by insurance.

 

[muxmax]

The more I think about it, the more I like the Black Sheep setup. Very flat and a flat surface which other racks don’t have and I guess one could add a second layer of L-tracks or the like to have more attachment points while still keeping the profile low and flexible.

 

[MrMike]

I guess the only why of assessing is getting exact specifications of the BS rack, including materials used etc. and comparing to the potentially more robust racking systems (or of course - buying one & using it in the harshest Australian conditions.)

I was under the impression that such conditions do eventually destroy all/most roof racks?

I've tried destroying my steel ARB rack on my LC for 290k klms in the harshest of conditions with loads exceeding it rated capability without structural damage, I have my reservations on these, happy to be proved wrong

 

[TheDocAUS]

The main issue with Rhino is they derate by 50% for off road use and most owners don't realise that and load them up.
Only to discover they are not covered by insurance.

For many users the car is over GVM as well, often way over. One reason why the two seater IG appeals to me. I should not have any GVM issues, if I am sensible.

 

[DCPU]

On the BS unit the entire roof carries the load and vibrations should be dampened by the roof rubber strips.

Static loadings yes, but some of the dynamic loadings can only be carried by the legs/attachment points.

 

[globalgregors]

The main issue with Rhino is they derate by 50% for off road use and most owners don't realise that and load them up.
Only to discover they are not covered by insurance.

I believe it’s not the rack that fails but the mounting solution - particularly the ‘backbone’ types. Gutter mount solutions are typically somewhat stronger, usually attach at six-eight points not four, and are clamped on rather than bolted/rivetted.

 

[bigleonski]

How strong can you make the aircraft track anchors, and how much tension can the actual tracks handle? Everything I’ve seen on the ineos has had plastic anchors with thinnish wire loops that I doubt could handle the sort of tying down with ratchets or other tiedown straps that I need to make sure gear doesn’t move or loosen over serious corruptions.

I’m assuming this stuff is the same grade as used in transport aircraft situations? Or is that being optimistic?

If it can’t handle serious rope / strap tension then it won’t cut it.

 

[MrMike]

How strong can you make the aircraft track anchors? Everything I’ve seen on the ineos has had plastic anchors with thinnish wire loops that I doubt could handle the sort of tying down with ratchets or other tiedown straps that I need to make sure gear doesn’t move or loosen over serious corruptions.

I’m assuming this stuff is the same grade as used in transport aircraft situations? Or is that being optimistic?

If it can’t handle serious rope / strap tension then it won’t cut it.

I'm more concerned with the use of tube aluminum as an anchor point