Anyone else considering returning their Ineos Grenadier?

[Tanters]

As a Man Utd fan I did shudder when I hear JR was buying into the club ..... simply because, if like his company, he'll get lots right but it's the little details that lose you top prize everytime. The IG is great and I love driving it. But.... there are too many obvious things amiss with it and the lack of effort with fixes is starting to grate.

No surprise I guess when you conside the whole purchases/ delivery (!)/ contract (what contract, I hear you scream!) debacle of the pre ownership phase.

The report card is showing a strong 7 out of 10 'must try harder' mark but no, I'm not going to give it up. When diesel hits €4.00 a litre, that might just tip me over the edge

 

[Roach]

@Tanters Can you unpack some of this...

- contract (what contract, what does that mean?
- "the lack of fixes is starting to grate", I'd be interested in your input?

I go hot/cold on this thing

FYI, IG's on order, delivery maybe 4Q or 1Q24.

 

[YellowLab]

As a Man Utd fan I did shudder when I hear JR was buying into the club ..... simply because, if like his company, he'll get lots right but it's the little details that lose you top prize everytime. The IG is great and I love driving it. But.... there are too many obvious things amiss with it and the lack of effort with fixes is starting to grate.

No surprise I guess when you conside the whole purchases/ delivery (!)/ contract (what contract, I hear you scream!) debacle of the pre ownership phase.

The report card is showing a strong 7 out of 10 'must try harder' mark but no, I'm not going to give it up. When diesel hits €4.00 a litre, that might just tip me over the edge

What do you mean by 'report card'. Who's report card is that?

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

FWIW, never was a vehicle ever made that didn’t have running evolutions.
I never expect perfection, just fitness for intended use.

 

[255/85]

Yes, mpg.
Willing to part with 100k for a vehicle, but operating costs are a problem for some.

<$80K for our build. That extra $20K buys a lot of fuel. Just sayin'.

My 2001 Jeep Cherokee Sport Uplander stayed at 19mpg over all surfaces for 340,000 miles. The chassis are quite similar, but the IG is bigger, more like the Jeep Commander.
I swear many of those vehicles look like first cousins to each other.

There's very little similarity between an IG chassis and a '01 Cherokee chassis. Yes, they both have solid axles but that's where the similarity ends imho.

1) The IG has a heavy ladder frame. The Cherokee (and Commander) are lightweight unitized body construction (monocoque for Commonwealth members). Cherokees deform readily if put to any real use. The doors stop closing, the windows roll up reluctantly, steering issue develope, etc. That's why there are so many subframe strengthening kits available.

2) The 4.0 inline six in the Cherokee, while certainly a great motor, is a naturally aspirated, port-injection iron-block lump. It's a low rpm motor severely lacking in available power by today's standards. The B58 is an aluminum-blocked turbocharged direct injection high rpm motor that has tremendous potential. They're two different animals and run very differently.

3) The Jeep has a very light duty chain-driven "part time" transfer case (NVG231J). I rebuilt one within the last year or so mixing in parts from 1/2 ton pickups of various makes to add some beef.

The transfer case in the IG is also aluminum but that's where the similarity ends. It is a "full time" gear driven heavy duty piece more like an NP205 (minus the 205's part time aspect). Gear driven transfer cases eat NVG231s for breakfast.

4) The differentials used in Cherokees are the diminutive Dana 30 and 35 front and rear. There's nothing wrong with them for the lightweight vehicles they were installed in, but they are not comparable to the diffs in the IG which resemble Dana 44s. There's a lot more continually rotating mass in the IG for sure.

5) There was a 4-speed automatic or a decent 5-speed manual available in Cherokees at the end of their run (2001) but the transmission in the IG is an 8-speed auto with much greater power handling potential. Very very different.

I am quite fond of the XJ/TJ Jeeps and if they had ever made a four door TJ I'd have two. But they didn't so I'll go with the IG.
I just don't think we can honestly compare the two vehicles.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

<$80K for our build. That extra $20K buys a lot of fuel. Just sayin'.



There's very little similarity between an IG chassis and a '01 Cherokee chassis. Yes, they both have solid axles but that's where the similarity ends imho.

1) The IG has a heavy ladder frame. The Cherokee (and Commander) are lightweight unitized body construction (monocoque for Commonwealth members). Cherokees deform readily if put to any real use. The doors stop closing, the windows roll up reluctantly, steering issue develope, etc. That's why there are so many subframe strengthening kits available.

2) The 4.0 inline six in the Cherokee, while certainly a great motor, is a naturally aspirated, port-injection iron-block lump. It's a low rpm motor severely lacking in available power by today's standards. The B58 is an aluminum-blocked turbocharged direct injection high rpm motor that has tremendous potential. They're two different animals and run very differently.

3) The Jeep has a very light duty chain-driven "part time" transfer case (NVG231J). I rebuilt one within the last year or so mixing in parts from 1/2 ton pickups of various makes to add some beef.

The transfer case in the IG is also aluminum but that's where the similarity ends. It is a "full time" gear driven heavy duty piece more like an NP205 (minus the 205's part time aspect). Gear driven transfer cases eat NVG231s for breakfast.

4) The differentials used in Cherokees are the diminutive Dana 30 and 35 front and rear. There's nothing wrong with them for the lightweight vehicles they were installed in, but they are not comparable to the diffs in the IG which resemble Dana 44s. There's a lot more continually rotating mass in the IG for sure.

5) There was a 4-speed automatic or a decent 5-speed manual available in Cherokees at the end of their run (2001) but the transmission in the IG is an 8-speed auto with much greater power handling potential. Very very different.

I am quite fond of the XJ/TJ Jeeps and if they had ever made a four door TJ I'd have two. But they didn't so I'll go with the IG.
I just don't think we can honestly compare the two vehicles.

6 cyl
Solid axles, rear locker
Dual range 4wd
Same fuel economy 20 years later
Jeep could drag I think 5000lb trailer.
Upgraded towing package
Smaller than the Grenadier

I can see the similarities
20mpg is still 20 mpg.
Easy $50 a day fuel bill now.

 

[YellowLab]

6 cyl
Solid axles, rear locker
Dual range 4wd
Same fuel economy 20 years later
Jeep could drag I think 5000lb trailer.
Upgraded towing package
Smaller than the Grenadier

I can see the similarities
20mpg is still 20 mpg.
Easy $50 a day fuel bill now.

"Easy $50 a day fuel bill now" Come to California where we have instituted the 'Make America Walk Again' program via $6.49 per gallon gas....

 

[Krabby]

"Easy $50 a day fuel bill now" Come to California where we have instituted the 'Make America Walk Again' program via $6.49 per gallon gas....

Angry European fuel price posts in 3…2…

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

"Easy $50 a day fuel bill now" Come to California where we have instituted the 'Make America Walk Again' program via $6.49 per gallon gas....

Oh I know, my kid lives in Culver City. They drive a Tesla.
Fuel economy and vehicle cost are two of the ways IA segments their market.
Legitimate barriers to entry.

 

[Tanters]

What do you mean by 'report card'. Who's report card is that?

When IA customer service pop one in the post to me ….. They will do that, right?

 

[Tanters]

@Tanters Can you unpack some of this...

- contract (what contract, what does that mean?
- "the lack of fixes is starting to grate", I'd be interested in your input?

I go hot/cold on this thing

FYI, IG's on order, delivery maybe 4Q or 1Q24.

So, on my turf, there was no IA specific contract. It turned out to be the big standard auto association contract with very small writing!

Well, top of the list is the grumble at 1800rpm, next is the somewhat mysterious fuel gauge (60km range left with 15ltrs in the tank ), water on the door seals, moody electric mirrors …… these will all be sorted with fixes no doubt . The question is when?

One can only hope that by the time yours arrives you won’t have to worry about such issues Super vehicle apart from all that so carry on

 

[YellowLab]

When IA customer service pop one in the post to me ….. They will do that, right?

No car company does that - what is the criteria?

 

[Jiman01]

"Easy $50 a day fuel bill now" Come to California where we have instituted the 'Make America Walk Again' program via $6.49 per gallon gas....

Wow, it’s @$3.09 here at the moment…$2.98 a few days before that.

My wife and I were talking abt the crazy grocery bills the other day but paying almost double for a gal of gas on top of that is crazy.

 

[Jeremy996]

@Krabby #248 comes true - US$3.09 a US gallon, I paid £1.59 a litre for diesel at Costco, Thurmaston, the cheapest around here by a mile, which is £6.01 per US gallon or US$7.34 a US gallon.
The last time I filled my Grenadier it cost me £108.50

You Americans don't know you're born!

As I posted to a different thread at the time, I was asked to comment on the vehicle and service by IA and they followed up with a telephone interview; https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/grenadier-quality-survey-14-04-2023.12412478/#post-1333195619

 

[AnD3rew]

My oh my.
Strong opinions abound for sure.
My remarks were just a reiteration of things I read on this site.
My go-No go requirements are different. Mostly related to trailer towing and altitude power.
One thing I do agree with is a better rear view camera setup and use of the touch screen space.
It’s a big vehicle, being able to see past the rear tire is beneficial.

I’m curious why people aren’t climbing on the regular posters who desire things like front and rear view cameras that are wired and mounted over top of the rearview mirror. That’s not something that is important to me, but it certainly seems like a large enough deviation from original design concept that members might attack them.

It’s true, I do work in the automobile automation industry. Worked for GM in steering systems during the end days of steering boxes. It was easy to build a faster gear, or a more on centered feel 40 years ago.
I too do not like backfeed through Rack systems, or the inevitable morning sickness.
I’ve been on board with the Grenadier concept since it was floated on Guns on Pegs in 2018? 2019?
I flew to Edinburgh to take a drive after being overlooked by Ineos for any of their US debut events.
I returned and placed my order.

The whole thing about this car is that it is designed to be as basic as a modern car can reasonably be and the whole principle was that owners would modify to suit their needs. Whether or not they completely meet that brief is debatable but if you want to add an aftermarket camera system for your needs do it. To add it from factory would have increased the cost and complexity of the vehicle same for many things some people may want. It’s supposed to be everything you need and nothing you don’t. We can argue all day about whether they did add some stuff you don’t need, but for the most part they didn’t leave off much you do need, emphasis on need rather than want or preference. We might all have made a few different choices but that’s the same with any car. I don’t think a car exists that if perfect for every owner and use case.

 

[DaveB]

@Krabby #248 comes true - US$3.09 a US gallon, I paid £1.59 a litre for diesel at Costco, Thurmaston, the cheapest around here by a mile, which is £6.01 per US gallon or US$7.34 a US gallon.
The last time I filled my Grenadier it cost me £108.50

You Americans don't know you're born!

As I posted to a different thread at the time, I was asked to comment on the vehicle and service by IA and they followed up with a telephone interview; https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/grenadier-quality-survey-14-04-2023.12412478/#post-1333195619

It's $2.17/litre for diesel here which is USD$1.38 of GBP1.13.
You will have to convert it to gallons or US gallons to compare.

 

[AnD3rew]

It's $2.17/litre for diesel here which is USD$1.38 of GBP1.13.
You will have to convert it to gallons or US gallons to compare.

Almost $2.50 here in Barcaldine. Thats more than $9AUD a US Gallon

 

[DaveB]

Almost $2.50 here in Barcaldine. Thats more than $9AUD a US Gallon

Wow.
Glad we don't buy in US Gallons

 

[Roach]

The MPG is the trade away for me - I have an X5 Diesel that is mid 30's on the highway - looks like the best the IG will get is maybe 18mpg

Are you replacing the X5 Diesel with the IG?

 

[Jiman01]

Speaking of rear view mirror cameras, I think this was the one that was referenced before:

https://www.voxxelectronics.com/gentex/full-display-rear-view/?sku=GENFDM3LN

After having one on my ND, I found it’s one of those features I didn’t know I needed. Now I can pack the back full of gear and not have to worry abt the rear view. Not sure how the camera in the one linked above mounts but on the ND it’s a mini shark fin that’s roof mounted so its protected from dirt, mud, debris.