2024 ADAS Issue and Work Around (USA)

[S52]

I was warning about all this stuff on the forum a year ago. Its good to see that these issues are finally gaining some traction, though I worry that it is too late for the Grenadier. Since Benjamin Franklin must have been talking about OTA updates, ADAS, and other "active safety systems" - "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Yes, there are too many car accidents, and I can understand why anyone who has lost a loved one to a car accident would want to see as many safety features as possible mandated by law. But I think there are ways to make the roads safer that are less invasive, and that do not expose the public to potential abuse at the hands of hackers, or some form of government overreach. I also understand that not everyone sees this issue in the same way. Each of us has our own perspective, shaped by our own life experiences. I am a combat veteran who was deployed downrange in two theaters during the Cold War. I have seen the consequences when governments take away individual liberty in the name of some "greater good", and its never good.

Really well said.

I also firmly believe the over reliance of vehicle sensors and safety systems is degrading peoples situational awareness, skills and driving abilities.

A few months back I was chatting with a coworker and he mentioned how his niece almost got them into a car wreck. She had just gotten her drivers permit and was very excited to drive any chance she got. While he was visiting he needed to run an errand and she asked if she could drive him there. He obliged and during the drive she attempted a lane change without checking her blind spot and my friend had to reach over and grab the wheel to prevent her from colliding with the vehicle beside them.

The niece was confused and said she didnt think anyone was there as there was no red indicator in the side view mirror (blind spot monitoring) My buddy had to explain his vehicle didnt have such a feature. The blind spot monitoring is your own eyeballs checking the blind spot before changing lanes! Needless to say her mind was blown on that one...

Apparently the car she was learning to drive on had that feature and incorrectly made the assumption all vehicles have that.

The roads are going to get a whole lot scarier in the coming decades with more and more drivers completely reliant on cameras and nannies to keep them safe.

 

[grnamin]

Really well said.

I also firmly believe the over reliance of vehicle sensors and safety systems is degrading peoples situational awareness, skills and driving abilities.

A few months back I was chatting with a coworker and he mentioned how his niece almost got them into a car wreck. She had just gotten her drivers permit and was very excited to drive any chance she got. While he was visiting he needed to run an errand and she asked if she could drive him there. He obliged and during the drive she attempted a lane change without checking her blind spot and my friend had to reach over and grab the wheel to prevent her from colliding with the vehicle beside them.

The niece was confused and said she didnt think anyone was there as there was no red indicator in the side view mirror (blind spot monitoring) My buddy had to explain his vehicle didnt have such a feature. The blind spot monitoring is your own eyeballs checking the blind spot before changing lanes! Needless to say her mind was blown on that one...

Apparently the car she was learning to drive on had that feature and incorrectly made the assumption all vehicles have that.

The roads are going to get a whole lot scarier in the coming decades with more and more drivers completely reliant on cameras and nannies to keep them safe.

Driving a vehicle is going from a thinking skill to a purely reacting one.

 

[pmatusov]

The roads are going to get a whole lot scarier in the coming decades with more and more drivers completely reliant on cameras and nannies to keep them safe.

Yes.
The same applies to DRL and corner lights/low beams. People see the bright spot in front of them and assume the lights are on.

 

[YellowLab]

Really well said.

I also firmly believe the over reliance of vehicle sensors and safety systems is degrading peoples situational awareness, skills and driving abilities.

A few months back I was chatting with a coworker and he mentioned how his niece almost got them into a car wreck. She had just gotten her drivers permit and was very excited to drive any chance she got. While he was visiting he needed to run an errand and she asked if she could drive him there. He obliged and during the drive she attempted a lane change without checking her blind spot and my friend had to reach over and grab the wheel to prevent her from colliding with the vehicle beside them.

The niece was confused and said she didnt think anyone was there as there was no red indicator in the side view mirror (blind spot monitoring) My buddy had to explain his vehicle didnt have such a feature. The blind spot monitoring is your own eyeballs checking the blind spot before changing lanes! Needless to say her mind was blown on that one...

Apparently the car she was learning to drive on had that feature and incorrectly made the assumption all vehicles have that.

The roads are going to get a whole lot scarier in the coming decades with more and more drivers completely reliant on cameras and nannies to keep them safe.

Easier way to prevent accidents - ban cell phones in cars....

 

[Jeffrey]

Easier way to prevent accidents - ban cell phones in cars....

They already are. Nobody cares and it's never enforced.

 

[YellowLab]

They already are. Nobody cares and it's never enforced.

Hands free are not banned - and folks jabbering are just as dangerous as those holding the phones.

 

[pmatusov]

Hands free are not banned - and folks jabbering are just as dangerous as those holding the phones.

That applies to drivers jabbering to passengers as well.

 

[parb]

It shouldn't be too difficult to reprogram the firmware to "save" the previous setting and keep it there after the start cycle. My wife's 2016 X3 has automatic stop/start and if you select it off the car remembers that setting on subsequent restarts. All Ineos has to do is replicate that with both the stop/start system and the ADAS functions.

Exactly.

I talked to someone well informed in the policy land at the US Federal government today. They told me that these rules won't become mandatory in the US despite certain European manufacturers insistence, the citizens in the US just won't tolerate that level of big brother rule making.

I just hope this doesn't backfire on the gren, I do really want it to be successful. I'm going to have to make a call in the next week or two if I'm cancelling or not. I'd like to drive it with these features on to make a call on it first. The demo cars didn't have these features.

Right now I'm leaning towards cancelling but I have a few days more until January to make up my mind.

 

[holdmybeer]

I'd like to drive it with these features on to make a call on it first. The demo cars didn't have these features.

Wait, the on-road demo trucks DON'T have ADAS ... Lol. And let me guess ... nobody is getting hurt, nobody is dying, and NOBODY is complaining, "nice truck but I want ADAS!" Nobody. Proof enough.

Well I'll stick with my order for now but INEOS really should be embarrassed by their lack of empathy for what a "built on purpose" buyer wants and does not want.

Man, they got so much else right and this falls squarely in the, "less computers" ethos they were selling us.

 

[Deleted member 9047666 (user closed account)]

Wait, the on-road demo trucks DON'T have ADAS ... Lol. And let me guess ... nobody is getting hurt, nobody is dying, and NOBODY is complaining, "nice truck but I want ADAS!" Nobody. Proof enough.

Well I'll stick with my order for now but INEOS really should be embarrassed by their lack of empathy for what a "built on purpose" buyer wants and does not want.

Man, they got so much else right and this falls squarely in the, "less computers" ethos they were selling us.

Correct. The demo vehicles as well as the two Grenadiers each dealer received before customers received theirs did not have it as well. Dealers were caught off guard as well.

 

[[ Adam ]]

Demo and dealer vehicles were prototypes and MY 23 or 23.5, this is a MY24 EU requirement that was overlooked. I'm sure it will be resolved in due time - but not worth canceling an order over

 

[parb]

I'm kind of like a dog, when I dig into something I just keep going... Sorry y'all...

I went and looked up the manual for Mercedes Benz my24 usa market s-class. They have the same speed warning function but you can set it to active or not, you can set how much above the speed limit you have to travel before the warning. Overall a much more rational approach to the US market with choices if it's a visual alert or visual + audible alert. They make a point that many of these settings are country specific. Their documents for the US did not state that this resets every power cycle (other places in the manual states that for other functions) leading me to believe that this setting is persistent.

Activating or deactivating the speed warning
# Activate or deactivate Speed Limit Warning.

Setting the type of warning
# Select ´ nexttoSpeedLimit Warning.
# Select Visual & Audible or Visual.

Setting the warning threshold
This value determines the speed at which a warning is issued when exceeded.
# Set The desired speed under Warning Threshold.

Volvo, the masters of safety also allows this to be set by market.
The symbol in the instrument panel will flash when the speed limit is exceeded by 5 km/h (3 mph).

The warning will be repeated once after about 30 seconds if the speed is not reduced.

After this, new warnings will only be provided if the speed is reduced by at least 5 km/h (3 mph) under the speed limit and then exceeded again. A new warning may also be provided if the vehicle enters a new speed limit zone.

The driver can be alerted if the vehicle is exceeding a detected speed limit and is approaching a speed camera.

And
Activating and deactivating warnings from Road Sign Information*
Updated 2023-11-17
Road Sign Information can be deactivated on some markets.

The function is available in certain markets.

Activate or deactivate the function under settings.
Tap Settings symbol in the center display.
Tap Privacy settings and select settings for Road Sign Information.

I have the xc90 with that function. I actually like the visual indication. I have turned off the sound. I think that works pretty well and isn't particularly annoying. I would be happy with that.

 

[Deleted member 9047666 (user closed account)]

I'm kind of like a dog, when I dig into something I just keep going... Sorry y'all...

I went and looked up the manual for Mercedes Benz my24 usa market s-class. They have the same speed warning function but you can set it to active or not, you can set how much above the speed limit you have to travel before the warning. Overall a much more rational approach to the US market with choices if it's a visual alert or visual + audible alert. They make a point that many of these settings are country specific. Their documents for the US did not state that this resets every power cycle (other places in the manual states that for other functions) leading me to believe that this setting is persistent.

Activating or deactivating the speed warning
# Activate or deactivate Speed Limit Warning.

Setting the type of warning
# Select ´ nexttoSpeedLimit Warning.
# Select Visual & Audible or Visual.

Setting the warning threshold
This value determines the speed at which a warning is issued when exceeded.
# Set The desired speed under Warning Threshold.

Volvo, the masters of safety also allows this to be set by market.
The symbol in the instrument panel will flash when the speed limit is exceeded by 5 km/h (3 mph).

The warning will be repeated once after about 30 seconds if the speed is not reduced.

After this, new warnings will only be provided if the speed is reduced by at least 5 km/h (3 mph) under the speed limit and then exceeded again. A new warning may also be provided if the vehicle enters a new speed limit zone.

The driver can be alerted if the vehicle is exceeding a detected speed limit and is approaching a speed camera.

And
Activating and deactivating warnings from Road Sign Information*
Updated 2023-11-17
Road Sign Information can be deactivated on some markets.

The function is available in certain markets.

Activate or deactivate the function under settings.
Tap Settings symbol in the center display.
Tap Privacy settings and select settings for Road Sign Information.

I have the xc90 with that function. I actually like the visual indication. I have turned off the sound. I think that works pretty well and isn't particularly annoying. I would be happy with that.

Thank you for taking the time to do this. It's been on my list and I'm going to try to do the same with a Land Rover in the next few days.

 

[FlyersFan76]

Hands free are not banned - and folks jabbering are just as dangerous as those holding the phones.

Or how about those people that still hold the phone in front of them on speaker phone? Like, "what I wasn't holding it to my ear"

 

[offroadjunkie]

This thread has mostly focused on the annoying speed warnings, but what's your experience with the rest of the nanny systems? Any reports of the lane departure warning going off? Emergency braking kicking in when it shouldn't? What about the driver drowsiness warning?

 

[Elijah]

After 100 mile drive home yesterday… if you turn off only the over speed warning then only the beep is for lane departure and no lights on dash. Overspeed warning is a triple beep and unbearable. I just wish the settings would save. It also seems to beep every time system loses and picks up the lanes. It’s annoying and needs to be fixed but it’s bearable for now.

 

[pmatusov]

This thread has mostly focused on the annoying speed warnings, but what's your experience with the rest of the nanny systems? Any reports of the lane departure warning going off? Emergency braking kicking in when it shouldn't? What about the driver drowsiness warning?

No emergency braking instances for me yet; lane departure warning is a relatively faint chime, barely audible compared to speed warning - a non-issue for me.
Speed warning in my truck is four loud clicks - like turn signal but louder. Hearing that for some others it is a triple beep, I wonder if there's a bunch of assorted firmware / settings across the spectrum.

 

[donnygreygrenadier]

I'm kind of like a dog, when I dig into something I just keep going... Sorry y'all...

I went and looked up the manual for Mercedes Benz my24 usa market s-class. They have the same speed warning function but you can set it to active or not, you can set how much above the speed limit you have to travel before the warning. Overall a much more rational approach to the US market with choices if it's a visual alert or visual + audible alert. They make a point that many of these settings are country specific. Their documents for the US did not state that this resets every power cycle (other places in the manual states that for other functions) leading me to believe that this setting is persistent.

Activating or deactivating the speed warning
# Activate or deactivate Speed Limit Warning.

Setting the type of warning
# Select ´ nexttoSpeedLimit Warning.
# Select Visual & Audible or Visual.

Setting the warning threshold
This value determines the speed at which a warning is issued when exceeded.
# Set The desired speed under Warning Threshold.

Volvo, the masters of safety also allows this to be set by market.
The symbol in the instrument panel will flash when the speed limit is exceeded by 5 km/h (3 mph).

The warning will be repeated once after about 30 seconds if the speed is not reduced.

After this, new warnings will only be provided if the speed is reduced by at least 5 km/h (3 mph) under the speed limit and then exceeded again. A new warning may also be provided if the vehicle enters a new speed limit zone.

The driver can be alerted if the vehicle is exceeding a detected speed limit and is approaching a speed camera.

And
Activating and deactivating warnings from Road Sign Information*
Updated 2023-11-17
Road Sign Information can be deactivated on some markets.

The function is available in certain markets.

Activate or deactivate the function under settings.
Tap Settings symbol in the center display.
Tap Privacy settings and select settings for Road Sign Information.

I have the xc90 with that function. I actually like the visual indication. I have turned off the sound. I think that works pretty well and isn't particularly annoying. I would be happy with that.

BMW is the same

 

[Grapa]

This thread has mostly focused on the annoying speed warnings, but what's your experience with the rest of the nanny systems? Any reports of the lane departure warning going off? Emergency braking kicking in when it shouldn't? What about the driver drowsiness warning?

Correct. The demo vehicles as well as the two Grenadiers each dealer received before customers received theirs did not have it as well. Dealers were caught off guard as well.

That is correct I find the pictures from the time I did the demo ride off road and it shows the rear mirror only without the ADAS camera system, see photo

 

[Deleted member 9047666 (user closed account)]

This thread has mostly focused on the annoying speed warnings, but what's your experience with the rest of the nanny systems? Any reports of the lane departure warning going off? Emergency braking kicking in when it shouldn't? What about the driver drowsiness warning?

Great question. The Lane departure is a great example of how systems should work. If you depart your lane or change lanes without a blinker it clicks 'once.' Perfectly reasonable. Have not experienced anything with e-braking or drowsiness.