Let's get some perspective: Is your Grenadier AC working as it should?

Kevin Mokracek said:

Well put, when it works it works great. I’ve had my truck almost a year now and 95% of the time the AC works great but it’s that 5% that goes bad at the worst possible time. I went 3 month after purchase with no problem but since then it has gone bad maybe 30 times or more. It usually is fine if I turn it off for 10 minutes but there have been a few times where it took over 24hours before it would reset to normal. I think it’s a software issue and am hoping it gets figured for some future software update.

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Worse possible moment?
When dressed as a beekeeper with hives in the boot (+buttons not working just touchscreen)?
When offroading with tons of dust?
...

Dok said:

Worse possible moment?
When dressed as a beekeeper with hives in the boot (+buttons not working just touchscreen)?
When offroading with tons of dust?
...

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I have had the latter happen.

I had the aircon re-gased earlier in the year, that worked fine there after but the heating wasn't much cop (pretty useless), I've had it bled about 4 or 5 times. Just got it back on Friday from the latest bleed and was told it needed fluid topping up. Tried today and it worked like a normal car, hot, warm or cold rather than just hot or cold. Auto worked!!! Not had the random direction issues but need to have a longer run. the final bleed sorted out any air lock and was reason for top up

I feel fortunate. No issues with heating or cooling (so far). In fact, no issues at all other than ADAS (which is minor with Fav button).

Dual Grenny Guy said:

From reading the last couple of posts seems like all USA owners will be having some type of A/C issue eventually and that Ineos is not an honorable company. Not trying to put words in anyone’s mouth, it’s just what I am reading. My buddy in Florida has had his almost a year now with well with over 20k miles, and I have been in/out of mine almost daily as well as sat running the A/C for long periods of time and again none of us any issues. I’m trying to be optimistic about my vehicles and the company who makes them, and maybe only time will tell, but I have to ask with such negative experiences why not sell it and get a vehicle with not so many issues especially if you really believe they know about an issue and are waiting for warranties to run out so they don’t have to repair it? Just me, but if I really felt this way no way I am staying with that company no matter what (even if I had to sell it at a loss). If they are doing that with the A/C, what about future issues with any other parts/systems. I obviously don’t feel this way and I hope I never do.

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We purchased our Ineos in feb when they first came to our area. We have had nothing but issues bringing it in constantly with little things to get replaced or updated. The ac was def something we had to have checked multiple times starting in March. Twice we brought it in bc the ac was blowing warm air. Another time is bc when the air is split between top and feet there’s a high pitched whistle sound. That was never fixed and is what they considered normal. Now it’s getting cooler and the heat is just luke warm. Not only that but we have had problems with our door buttons sticking and therefore not allowing the doors to stay closed and latched. This will be the third time bringing it in to get them unstuck. We love our car but with all the times we have to bring the car in(dealership is not close by) and the service not knowing what’s going on 50% of the time (they never have answers and have been incredibly rude) we started to think of just selling the car. However bc it’s a brand new car and with just a little miles we will be loosing out on this car by a lot. It’s a hard decision to want to keep this car and putting up with all its imperfections and a subpar dealership for service. I read these forums and see the positivity in the post and I try to stay positive about this car but time is money and at some point we will need to think if it’s worth all the hassle in the end.

I know my car also has a problem with the A/C auto mode.
How can we send this opinions to Ineos?
Even my car started leaking coolant from the driver's seat last Thursday after 1700km.

My AC works amazingly simple. Its genius when you think about it really. There's 2 settings: 1. Antarctica cold and 2. Sahara Hot. I think they did it on purpose to go with the theme of the car.

Noriboo said:

We purchased our Ineos in feb when they first came to our area. We have had nothing but issues bringing it in constantly with little things to get replaced or updated. The ac was def something we had to have checked multiple times starting in March. Twice we brought it in bc the ac was blowing warm air. Another time is bc when the air is split between top and feet there’s a high pitched whistle sound. That was never fixed and is what they considered normal. Now it’s getting cooler and the heat is just luke warm. Not only that but we have had problems with our door buttons sticking and therefore not allowing the doors to stay closed and latched. This will be the third time bringing it in to get them unstuck. We love our car but with all the times we have to bring the car in(dealership is not close by) and the service not knowing what’s going on 50% of the time (they never have answers and have been incredibly rude) we started to think of just selling the car. However bc it’s a brand new car and with just a little miles we will be loosing out on this car by a lot. It’s a hard decision to want to keep this car and putting up with all its imperfections and a subpar dealership for service. I read these forums and see the positivity in the post and I try to stay positive about this car but time is money and at some point we will need to think if it’s worth all the hassle in the end.

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Mine needed to be bled a number of time, ac re-gassed and now it near enough works, you just need to give it some time to think what it wants to do

Noriboo said:

We purchased our Ineos in feb when they first came to our area. We have had nothing but issues bringing it in constantly with little things to get replaced or updated. The ac was def something we had to have checked multiple times starting in March. Twice we brought it in bc the ac was blowing warm air. Another time is bc when the air is split between top and feet there’s a high pitched whistle sound. That was never fixed and is what they considered normal. Now it’s getting cooler and the heat is just luke warm. Not only that but we have had problems with our door buttons sticking and therefore not allowing the doors to stay closed and latched. This will be the third time bringing it in to get them unstuck. We love our car but with all the times we have to bring the car in(dealership is not close by) and the service not knowing what’s going on 50% of the time (they never have answers and have been incredibly rude) we started to think of just selling the car. However bc it’s a brand new car and with just a little miles we will be loosing out on this car by a lot. It’s a hard decision to want to keep this car and putting up with all its imperfections and a subpar dealership for service. I read these forums and see the positivity in the post and I try to stay positive about this car but time is money and at some point we will need to think if it’s worth all the hassle in the end.

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I truly hate to hear of your issues. It’s so crazy how some owners have totally different experiences than others. I do believe it has to do with build dates and them working out some initial issues. Purchased both of mine May 2024. I live in Louisiana (always hot & humid, it’s November and you will still sweat walking outside) and run both my A/C’s every single day (rotate driving them). I’m in and out of it all day sometimes and other times can sit in for 30-45min waiting. All with no issues at all. Wish all owners had the same experience!! Good luck.

Dual Grenny Guy said:

I truly hate to hear of your issues. It’s so crazy how some owners have totally different experiences than others. I do believe it has to do with build dates and them working out some initial issues. Purchased both of mine May 2024. I live in Louisiana (always hot & humid, it’s November and you will still sweat walking outside) and run both my A/C’s every single day (rotate driving them). I’m in and out of it all day sometimes and other times can sit in for 30-45min waiting. All with no issues at all. Wish all owners had the same experience!! Good luck.

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The Grenadier AC system architecture is uncommon in that the condenser (part of conversion of the refrigerant back to a liquid state) is not a conventional air heat exchanger placed in front of the engine radiator. It is a liquid heat exchanger that is part of the low pressure engine cooling circuit. As has been well noted by others, notably @AWo who had some early engineering involvement in the Grenadier program, thermal management performance of the B5x power units, which includes cooling of the ZF transmission, appears to be on the upper limits in Ineos platforms hence the additional cooler matrix and high flow electric fan installed in the RH wing plus potentially, and I'm speculating because I have no factual knowledge of this, the design absence of a conventional AC condenser which would add an additional heat load in front of the main radiator.
Why does this matter in a discussion about AC cooling performance? The AC heat exchanger is compact and does not have a fan to blow air across it. Its operating efficiency is determined by (design and packaging constraints, plus) the effectiveness of the heat transfer from the AC refrigerant across the heat exchanger to the engine low pressure cooling system. If the low pressure cooling system is not operating at peak efficiency, perhaps due to low coolant level or air trapped in the system, then the AC cooling performance will be affected. This explains why we have seen many owners report that their AC cooling operation improved after the engine low pressure cooling system was serviced, including an Ineos-specific bleeding procedure.

The AC condenser (liquid heat exchanger) sits up high on the left side of the engine. It's about the same height as the low pressure tank/reservoir and the top hose of the radiator so will be susceptible to the presence of any trapped air.

Edit: Came back (before someone jumps on me!) to add that Low Pressure and High Pressure can be read as Low and High Temperature. High is 14 Bar. Low is 1.0 Bar. They're frequently referred to as the Low and High Temperature circuits so go with whatever floats your boat.

Clark Kent said:

The Grenadier AC system architecture is uncommon in that the condenser (part of conversion of the refrigerant back to a liquid state) is not a conventional air heat exchanger placed in front of the engine radiator. It is a liquid heat exchanger that is part of the low pressure engine cooling circuit. As has been well noted by others, notably @AWo who had some early engineering involvement in the Grenadier program, thermal management performance of the B5x power units, which includes cooling of the ZF transmission, appears to be on the upper limits in Ineos platforms hence the additional cooler matrix and high flow electric fan installed in the RH wing plus potentially, and I'm speculating because I have no factual knowledge of this, the design absence of a conventional AC condenser which would add an additional heat load in front of the main radiator.
Why does this matter in a discussion about AC cooling performance? The AC heat exchanger is compact and does not have a fan to blow air across it. Its operating efficiency is determined by (design and packaging constraints, plus) the effectiveness of the heat transfer from the AC refrigerant across the heat exchanger to the engine low pressure cooling system. If the low pressure cooling system is not operating at peak efficiency, perhaps due to low coolant level or air trapped in the system, then the AC cooling performance will be affected. This explains why we have seen many owners report that their AC cooling operation improved after the engine low pressure cooling system was serviced, including an Ineos-specific bleeding procedure.

The AC condenser (liquid heat exchanger) sits up high on the left side of the engine. It's about the same height as the low pressure tank/reservoir and the top hose of the radiator so will be susceptible to the presence of any trapped air.

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I actually understand everything you have typed up. So your thoughts are earlier produced vehicles had low coolant levels or air trapped in their systems, and that the dealerships are now bleeding/servicing all the new vehicles before sold? Hence, why neither of mine have had any issues. If so, makes sense. Glad they have found a fixed for newer owners and hope they take care of the older ones.

I’ve had my system bled twice and coolant added after they said they found a leaking hose. They put in a new hose filled the system again and bled any air out. The drive home from the dealer it failed again, warm air up front and scalding hot in the back. When I got home I let it sit for 20 minutes and it was fine again. It happens probably once a week if I drive it frequently. I think I hear a baffle or vent slam closed or open just prior to it failing, not sure if that could be part of the problem

Kevin Mokracek said:

I’ve had my system bled twice and coolant added after they said they found a leaking hose. They put in a new hose filled the system again and bled any air out. The drive home from the dealer it failed again, warm air up front and scalding hot in the back. When I got home I let it sit for 20 minutes and it was fine again. It happens probably once a week if I drive it frequently. I think I hear a baffle or vent slam closed or open just prior to it failing, not sure if that could be part of the problem

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See I hate reading/hearing this and feel bad for you. Hope they find the issue. Do you have a MY23/23.5 or MY24 model? Guessing MY24 if in the USA as was told that’s all that we got. Good luck.

Dual Grenny Guy said:

I actually understand everything you have typed up. So your thoughts are earlier produced vehicles had low coolant levels or air trapped in their systems, and that the dealerships are now bleeding/servicing all the new vehicles before sold? Hence, why neither of mine have had any issues. If so, makes sense. Glad they have found a fixed for newer owners and hope they take care of the older ones.

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I'm not sure if it's a early-late production thing. I want to think that checking fluid levels has always been part of the dealer PDI and this was being done. Perhaps the learning that came from tech cases where an AC fault was remedied by servicing the cooling system has informed dealers that it may not be sufficient to just top up a low reservoir as part of pre-delivery. It's essential to bleed the system as well. I need to read my owner's manual again...

I guess there are several overlapping problems, which makes solving them complicated.

After 18 months my dealer finally succeeded in reproducing my problem.
IA recognized the problem but said they had no solution for the moment.

As for all my other issues: my IG is great to drive when everything is working properly.

In manual or even in auto mode my aircon is blowing burning air and cold air at the same time.
In manual, most of the time, I don't have any control on the ventilation nozzles and air temperature

@Clark Kent and @Dok and @Kevin Mokracek again I hate yall are having issues, but what has changed since I purchased two of them and neither have any issues including A/C? That’s what I don’t get. Did they find the problem and started fixing the issues on newer sold vehicles & kept it hush hush? I bought both mine in May 2024, and appears y’all both bought yours before I did. I run both mine in different modes to even try to create an A/C issue (manual vs auto, on/off frequently, running for long periods of time, different speeds, etc) and just keeps working flawlessly. Something had to have changed. Probably jinxing myself now…..

Dual Grenny Guy said:

@Clark Kent and @Dok and @Kevin Mokracek again I hate yall are having issues, but what has changed since I purchased two of them and neither have any issues including A/C? That’s what I don’t get. Did they find the problem and started fixing the issues on newer sold vehicles & kept it hush hush? I bought both mine in May 2024, and appears y’all both bought yours before I did. I run both mine in different modes to even try to create an A/C issue (manual vs auto, on/off frequently, running for long periods of time, different speeds, etc) and just keeps working flawlessly. Something had to have changed. Probably jinxing myself now…..

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Not all suffer from the problem, I would count yourself lucky if your trucks don’t have it. I don’t think IA knows what the problem is or they would most likely have said, or I would hope they would have. My dealer told me even if they know what the issue is they can’t fix it unless they see it themselves. Because it’s such a random problem that means when I take it in they can never reproduce the problem. I literally need to be out driving, have the problem happen and drive it straight to the dealer while it is happening. Not very practical.

Dual Grenny Guy said:

@Clark Kent and @Dok and @Kevin Mokracek again I hate yall are having issues, but what has changed since I purchased two of them and neither have any issues including A/C? That’s what I don’t get. Did they find the problem and started fixing the issues on newer sold vehicles & kept it hush hush? I bought both mine in May 2024, and appears y’all both bought yours before I did. I run both mine in different modes to even try to create an A/C issue (manual vs auto, on/off frequently, running for long periods of time, different speeds, etc) and just keeps working flawlessly. Something had to have changed. Probably jinxing myself now…..

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Aside from a gas leak from a faulty charging valve and the issue with condensation drips, my HVAC has always operated well. Auto mode is good. I set the outlet, fan speed and temp I want then press AUTO and leave it alone. It huffs and puffs while sensing the cabin temperature and making coarse adjustments then settles down.

My VIN is xx1886 and it was as built in 2Q23. It was part of an early batch of vehicles that were part of a batch and hold process where distribution of early production vehicles from Hambach was delayed while further QA checks were done and fixes were applied. A build, check and adjust process.

Your experience and mine are not unique. Positive stories confirm that the HVAC system design is sound but there has clearly been production and/or component quality issues that have affected some vehicles. That's not unique to Ineos. Toyota still screw up basic stuff in new products and issue recalls, campaigns and TSBs. Building complex multi-market vehicles must be hard.

Ok new problem with AC fans and operation. Today, first time I noticed this but when I switch from (Front only) to (Front + Legs) - I also get cold air blowing on to windscreen causing condensation external in QLDs hot and humid weather... turn it back to FRONT vent only and it works as intended. Anyone else get this occurrence?

trobex said:

Ok new problem with AC fans and operation. Today, first time I noticed this but when I switch from (Front only) to (Front + Legs) - I also get cold air blowing on to windscreen causing condensation external in QLDs hot and humid weather... turn it back to FRONT vent only and it works as intended. Anyone else get this occurrence?

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Yes. It’s very random. Basically the system cannot blow either the same warm air or cold air from two vents (front demister and feet), I get warm air out of one vent and cold air on the feet. Sometimes it’s ok, sometimes not, I get condensation when it rains heavily on the inside and sometimes like you I get condensation on the lower screen outside . When I use the demister function to get rid of condensation or when it’s very humid, I get droplets of water in the footwell.