Ineos signals worrying strategies

parb · Aug 2, 2024

I've viewed the arcane works with worry.
The Ineos cloning JLR's strategies suggests that the bean counter with their lack of imagination and focus on short term profits is running the ship. I guess it's a reflection of the broader economy where pessimistic views about the spending capabilities of the public gives way for the focus on the upper class and them being insulated from the economy.

I don't like it, and the resulting focus on the moneyed class.

Yet I appreciate the point that politicians have created so many rules that you either are a mega manufacturing house or a niche house. Grenadier gets more runway without the fusilier to stay in the niche category.

But I dislike that to make it a viable business as a niche house is to create rolls Royce's and Bentley's - further making the demarcation between the haves and have nots extremely visible. I guess it was just business for ratcliff at the end of the day. The idea that it was a self sustaining passion project seems incorrect, its about maximizing profits.

Anyway, I'm ranting.
This is the article that got me wound up. It's about the broader shift in ineos strategy.

Ineos rethinks range expansion to focus on Grenadier | Autocar

4x4 brand ditches new models as it intentionally limits volumes and develops high-value Grenadier spin-offs

www.autocar.co.uk

landmannnn · Aug 2, 2024

A passion project still has to be financially viable. But I do agree that the IG shouldn't become an urban princess.

anand · Aug 2, 2024

I've posted it before, but I feel like it is simply expanding their potential market into those who wrote off the Grenadier before. A number of reservation holders at the LA and South Florida PTO2 locations made mentions of only being interested if it was "starting over $100k".

Whether you like it or not (or even agree with it), there is a notable segment of global potential buyers who care about the dollar amount for when their friends or acquaintances asks about it

Shaky · Aug 2, 2024

I don’t feel like I have been ripped off or feel poor because someone can afford to have loads of trinkets strapped to their Grenadier.

To me it’s a similar thing to the guy who pulls up next to my bog standard Grenny at the traffic lights but his Grenny has a RTT, aftermarket rims, suspension lift etc etc, again I don’t feel inadequate, to me I just look and think, nice truck. He has clearly spent more money on his than I have to get it how he wants it !!

If Ineos don’t do it themselves another company will do it anyway.

I just see it as keeping the brand going and the dealers doors open if they are selling them.

landmannnn · Aug 2, 2024

The other thing, the journo who wrote this drives a FIAT Panda.

Zimm · Aug 2, 2024

The average guy can’t afford the base truck.

The only place to go is up.

Lars · Aug 2, 2024

anand said:
I've posted it before, but I feel like it is simply expanding their potential market into those who wrote off the Grenadier before. A number of reservation holders at the LA and South Florida PTO2 locations made mentions of only being interested if it was "starting over $100k".

Whether you like it or not (or even agree with it), there is a notable segment of global potential buyers who care about the dollar amount for when their friends or acquaintances asks about it

Some people have more money than sense. I guess if it keeps Ineos in business for another 10 years, I'm all for it. After reading the article I wonder... Some of you who plan to pass your truck on to your grandchildren should be worried whether Ineos will even be around then.

So why can't Ineos have the Trialmaster be the hard core rig with 4:1 transfer case, factory 35's, under armor skid plates and maybe ever portals and the fieldmaster be the soft, low to the ground, blinged-out, luxomobile? Right now I don't even understand the difference between models. Either one can be what ever you want if you order it.

anand · Aug 2, 2024

Lars said:
So why can't Ineos have the Trialmaster be the hard core rig with 4:1 transfer case, factory 35's, under armor skid plates and maybe ever portals and the fieldmaster be the soft, low to the ground, blinged-out, luxomobile? Right now I don't even understand the difference between models. Either one can be what ever you want if you order it.

They aren't models, they are option packages effectively.

And a more hardcore version I believe is in the works

parb · Aug 2, 2024

Here is my worry. The current gren is priced in the market roughly where both the range rover and g class where priced about a decade before they decided that they needed to compete with Bentley.

This price point is reachable by the upper middle class. The current g class price point and the current era range rover have largely become the vehicle for the 1%, realistically even at entry level priced 50% above the gren. At volume sales they are almost 80-100% above the gren, making it less of an adventure car and more of a statement car. Which is exactly what those two cars have become.

With that marker segment comes a ecosystem of after markets parts that focus on things that appeals to the 1%. like bespoke Louis Vuitton interior, champagne chillers and necessities for that Instagram post. The super wealthy will not touch the gren, we are talking the silicon valley exec, the crypto crew and the monied influencers. The current ecosystem of functional after market suppliers die in that world where brand and image matters more than capability. just what is slowly happening in the g class universe.

We are fooling ourselves if we think that ineos can satisfy two market segments and that the bespoke won't spill into the core product and bastardize it. Or at least this is my worry based on having seen these types of strategies roll out into the market in the last decade or two.

We started this journey with a focus on a modern defender. We're landing in a Bentley competitor if these strategies play out. Incompatible strategies under the same brand. Hence my worry.

I really don't want to see ineos become like a Aston Martin with it's confused market segmentation and tethering on bankruptcy year after year as they dont have the money to really consistently spend to keep up with expectations in the luxury market and no real model segmentation that creates a cash cow like Porsche got with the cayenne that subsidies the rest of the product line.

My few cents

Lars · Aug 2, 2024

anand said:
They aren't models, they are option packages effectively.

Exactly! Why not make them "models"? B-school grads on the forum can tell me why that's a silly idea.
So are the base model Wrangler and the Wrangler 392 different models or just trim/option packages, because they sure ain't the same vehicle...

Zimm · Aug 2, 2024

What exactly is the issue? We all have one. Now that I succumb to my childish whims and bought the damn thing, I really don't give a shit how they stay in business. I just want them to stay in business. Models, trims, free weekends at a ranch in Reno knee deep in hookers and coke for every purchase? What the hell do I care? ... Well, actually, if they do a Reno promo next month I may be a little pissed, but, It's all a matter of timing. Can't win them all.

parb · Aug 2, 2024

Here is a pic of my gren next to a status symbol in the monied class, the Maybach. Pic from last night.

Zimm · Aug 2, 2024

Whats that? 7-8 years old? Nothing says "has been" or "wannabe" like a last model generation status symbol. A Black Diamond Bronco costs more than that right now.

holdmybeer · Aug 2, 2024

I care about Ineos' future to the degree that they are there for me and my middle class parts and service needs for a long time.

I hope they're in business for a long time, because I intend to own my truck for a long time.

And I hope when I show up for a 200,000 km service in 10 years or so that I'm charged and treated sensibly, not like a Bentley or Lambo customer. If that's the socioeconomic demographic that Ineos shifts to over the years, well, I guess I'll suck it up. First world problem.

DaveB · Aug 3, 2024

Lars said:
Some people have more money than sense. I guess if it keeps Ineos in business for another 10 years, I'm all for it. After reading the article I wonder... Some of you who plan to pass your truck on to your grandchildren should be worried whether Ineos will even be around then.

So why can't Ineos have the Trialmaster be the hard core rig with 4:1 transfer case, factory 35's, under armor skid plates and maybe ever portals and the fieldmaster be the soft, low to the ground, blinged-out, luxomobile? Right now I don't even understand the difference between models. Either one can be what ever you want if you order it.

Ineos taking the brand up market is good for our vehicle values in the long run.
I think the only reason for Fieldmaster and Trialmaster editions was to do some advertising for the financially troubled jacket manufacturer that Ineos also own.
Obviously you are also talking about a specification that is more associated with the North American market than the rest of the world.
I think you will see that in the future, particularly if Ineos does open manufacturing over there.
Rock crawling isn't that common in Europe or even in Australia.
Overlanding and camping is more common and I think Ineos target market.
Along with towing and polo.
4:1 ratio and 35" tyres are more common here on old 4WDS that have been built particularly for bush bashing.
33" tyres are a lot more common
Although there are still a lot of vehicles with 35" but they are often mostly seen around the suburbs rather than the outback

Earthwatcher · Aug 3, 2024

I've always viewed the Grenadier as a niche vehicle. For me it's a rufty tufty toy that I drive around home. It's just not comfortable enough, frugal enough or practical enough to take on long motorway journeys with a bit of offroading at the end. I use the far more comfortable new Defender for that. So I treat the Gren as a bit of rural eye-candy that I know can do the business, but it's far too precious to subject it to anything too strenuous. If I wanted to go green laning (I don't) I'd buy an old Discovery with all the necessaries. Over time I expect I'll build on what's there, but just now I enjoy its pretty looks, its quirks, and slamming those oh-so-solid doors. I imagine it looking a bit more beat up 20 years down the line but in the meantime I would welcome limited sales and output. I'd rather not see too many on the road.

Shopkeep · Aug 3, 2024

The Ineos Automotive product strategy is like an iPhone, there is a new one every year so if you don’t like the current one just wait a while.

But if making cars for toffs keeps them in the carbon burning heavy duty ladder chassis 4X4 business and keeps me in parts then so be it.

Roach · Aug 3, 2024

DaveB said:
Ineos taking the brand up market is good for our vehicle values in the long run.
I think the only reason for Fieldmaster and Trialmaster editions was to do some advertising for the financially troubled jacket manufacturer that Ineos also own.
Obviously you are also talking about a specification that is more associated with the North American market than the rest of the world.
I think you will see that in the future, particularly if Ineos does open manufacturing over there.
Rock crawling isn't that common in Europe or even in Australia.
Overlanding and camping is more common and I think Ineos target market.
Along with towing and polo.
4:1 ratio and 35" tyres are more common here on old 4WDS that have been built particularly for bush bashing.
33" tyres are a lot more common
Although there are still a lot of vehicles with 35" but they are often mostly seen around the suburbs rather than the outback
View attachment 7865692 View attachment 7865693

I wouldn’t use the IG to tow a horse trailer unless it was those mini horses (but my feet drag on the ground during the match

Mountain4x4 · Aug 3, 2024

DaveB said:
Ineos taking the brand up market is good for our vehicle values in the long run.
I think the only reason for Fieldmaster and Trialmaster editions was to do some advertising for the financially troubled jacket manufacturer that Ineos also own.
Obviously you are also talking about a specification that is more associated with the North American market than the rest of the world.
I think you will see that in the future, particularly if Ineos does open manufacturing over there.
Rock crawling isn't that common in Europe or even in Australia.
Overlanding and camping is more common and I think Ineos target market.
Along with towing and polo.
4:1 ratio and 35" tyres are more common here on old 4WDS that have been built particularly for bush bashing.
33" tyres are a lot more common
Although there are still a lot of vehicles with 35" but they are often mostly seen around the suburbs rather than the outback
View attachment 7865692 View attachment 7865693

35s are the standard trail tire in the US. 37s are more common. Ours is less then a week old and rolling on 35s.

DaveB · Aug 3, 2024

Roach said:
I wouldn’t use the IG to tow a horse trailer unless it was those mini horses (but my feet drag on the ground during the match

I think that is one of it's main design criteria.
Polo horse floats.
It will tow 3500KG (7700 pounds) easily, particularly the diesel.
The ability to drive on the road in 4wd low range unlocked up to 80 kmh or 50 mph also makes it great for towing

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Ineos signals worrying strategies

parb

Ineos rethinks range expansion to focus on Grenadier | Autocar

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