Towing With The Grenadier

rovie · Apr 10, 2024

Les said:
Cattle. All very normal farming to and fro , except for the 15 month wait for the Grenny. One more sleep and I shall know if my heart was right when I took the plunge .

You won't regret it. The Grenadier is an excellent towing vehicle. Especially on damp surfaces.

bikesandguitars · May 8, 2024

Les said:
Cattle. All very normal farming to and fro , except for the 15 month wait for the Grenny. One more sleep and I shall know if my heart was right when I took the plunge .

How did you and the Grenadier do?

Les · May 8, 2024

It’s awesome . Yes it makes my trusty 110 feel truly a relic, mainly due to power and comfort and lack of drone in my ears. You have to go to totally illegal loads to make you remember that you have a trailer behind. I know I'm a fan but even with my hard nosed tell the truth hat on it is bloody awesome

JKLIVIN · May 18, 2024

What’s the max length a Grenadier can pull?

I’ve read that the 7716 lb limit as considering your Gren has 1900 lbs inside. What if the grand only has 250 pounds inside including driver and Gear… Does that give you more weight you can put in your trailer safely over the 7716?

Thanks in advance, new gren owner. I traded my 21 1 ton diesel to buy the wifey a Mother’s Day present, and now I’m jealous of her new daily Gren versus the big rig I used to drive. Considering I only tow my Racecar a half a dozen times a year… I’m wondering if the grenadier can carry the weight?

bikesandguitars · May 18, 2024

JKLIVIN said:
What’s the max length a Grenadier can pull?

I’ve read that the 7716 lb limit as considering your Gren has 1900 lbs inside. What if the grand only has 250 pounds inside including driver and Gear… Does that give you more weight you can put in your trailer safely over the 7716?

Thanks in advance, new gren owner. I traded my 21 1 ton diesel to buy the wifey a Mother’s Day present, and now I’m jealous of her new daily Gren versus the big rig I used to drive. Considering I only tow my Racecar a half a dozen times a year… I’m wondering if the grenadier can carry the weight?

Drivers can calculate towing capacity as:

GCVWR – Curb Weight = Towing Capacity.

GCVWR is your vehicle’s Combined Vehicle Weight Rating – the combined weight of your tow vehicle and the trailer you plan to tow, together with all of the cargo each will carry. So, GCVWR includes the people in the tow vehicle, anything they take in the cabin with them, and the fully loaded trailer itself.
Curb Weight is the tow vehicle’s weight when filled with gas and other fluids it consumes while driving, but with no people or cargo. Curb weight is usually found in your owner’s manual and often found on a placard mounted low on the driver’s side door jamb.

JKLIVIN · May 21, 2024

bikesandguitars said:
Drivers can calculate towing capacity as:

GCVWR – Curb Weight = Towing Capacity.

GCVWR is your vehicle’s Combined Vehicle Weight Rating – the combined weight of your tow vehicle and the trailer you plan to tow, together with all of the cargo each will carry. So, GCVWR includes the people in the tow vehicle, anything they take in the cabin with them, and the fully loaded trailer itself.

Curb Weight is the tow vehicle’s weight when filled with gas and other fluids it consumes while driving, but with no people or cargo. Curb weight is usually found in your owner’s manual and often found on a placard mounted low on the driver’s side door jamb.

Thank you, that’s helpful… I’m still looking for some real world experience regarding length of trailer vs wheelbase of tow rig. I’d love to tow my 28ft Featherlite race car trailer with the Grenadier, and in curious, if other owners of this awesome new SUV, I’ve been courageous enough to try pulling something so long, and how the experience was. I will probably be at max weight with the GCVWR.

FlyersFan76 · May 21, 2024

While not as heavy or as long as a camper short length trailers can be a pain. Truck was great even with a short backup area and small turning radius. They told me to park tight so I did. I might be asked to help park trailers and vehicles next time. lol

Bayford · Jun 3, 2024

Any ideas why my Grenadier might be feeling light at the front end when towing?

My Diesel Grenadier (basically same spec as a Trialmaster but without the snorkel) tows an Ifor Williams cattle trailer (guessing weight about 3/4 of a ton) with about 2.5 tons of South Devon cattle inside it without any issue. It feels feels fine, and tows as well as a Landcruiser Amazon.

That car has been with the dealer for a few weeks having software issues sorted.

I now have a petrol Fieldmaster Grenadier on loan from from the dealer which when towing more or less the same load is decidedly light on the front end and the steering is a lot less direct.

Tyre pressure is pretty much the same on both vehicles; both have BF Goodrich All Terrains and factory fitted towbars. I can't work out why one tows brilliantly and the other pretty dreadfully - unless the Diesel engine is a lot heavier than the petrol engine so is acting like the front weights on a tractor.

Any suggestions to try and resolve this issue gratefully received as I don't know when "my" grenadier will be back.

Eric · Jun 3, 2024

Bayford said:
Any ideas why my Grenadier might be feeling light at the front end when towing?

My Diesel Grenadier (basically same spec as a Trialmaster but without the snorkel) tows an Ifor Williams cattle trailer (guessing weight about 3/4 of a ton) with about 2.5 tons of South Devon cattle inside it without any issue. It feels feels fine, and tows as well as a Landcruiser Amazon.

That car has been with the dealer for a few weeks having software issues sorted.

I now have a petrol Fieldmaster Grenadier on loan from from the dealer which when towing more or less the same load is decidedly light on the front end and the steering is a lot less direct.

Tyre pressure is pretty much the same on both vehicles; both have BF Goodrich All Terrains and factory fitted towbars. I can't work out why one tows brilliantly and the other pretty dreadfully - unless the Diesel engine is a lot heavier than the petrol engine so is acting like the front weights on a tractor.

Any suggestions to try and resolve this issue gratefully received as I don't know when "my" grenadier will be back.

You're right with the diesel being heavier ar the front end compared to the petrol.
But you may be underestimating the weight of your trailer. I would look on the IWT website for the unladen weight of the cattle trailer. I'm assuming it is at least a 14ft twin axle, so unladen it will be the high side of at least 1.00 Tonne. How many cattle? They are going to be at least 0.5T each. If you have underestimated the load your noise weight may get close to the 350kg noise weight, making the front end seem light.

Tom D · Jun 3, 2024

Tell the bulls to take one pace backwards.

Tom D · Jun 3, 2024

I've been really pleased with how mine tows, its diesel too.

@Eric Have you measured the height of the towballs on the two cars? Maybe the petrol is higher?

Eric · Jun 3, 2024

Tom D said:
I've been really pleased with how mine tows, its diesel too.

@Eric Have you measured the height of the towballs on the two cars? Maybe the petrol is higher?

Mine is diesel and tows 3.5T with ease. The other thing @Bayford rather than towball height, I think the diesel and petrol have different front spring ratings.

Bayford · Jun 4, 2024

Thank you for your replies.

I can't measure the height at the moment on my tow hitch as I don't have the car but on the Fieldmaster the top of the ball hitch is 20.5 inches from the ground. I measured the tow hitch heights on the Landcruisers as they were available and they are 20 inches - so not a lot of difference.

I have checked the trailer unladen weight which is 1050 kilos ( you were right Eric). On each trip we took four maiden heifers which would have averaged 450 kilos (+/- 10 kilos) each so I don't think we were pulling more than about 3 tons in total. I don't know what the weight would have been on the tow hitch.

I am interested if the front spring ratings are different between the various grenadier configurations as that would explain a lot. It did occur to me last night that my Grenadier has a front winch fitted (never used) and that probably adds 40 kilos or so right under the front bumper which might improve the front end traction over that on the loan car that I have.

We were only towing for a mile or so (to get cattle back to the yard for TB testing) but below 30mph the steering was fine - the more you went above this the lighter the steering became.

Eric · Jun 4, 2024

Bayford said:
Thank you for your replies.

I can't measure the height at the moment on my tow hitch as I don't have the car but on the Fieldmaster the top of the ball hitch is 20.5 inches from the ground. I measured the tow hitch heights on the Landcruisers as they were available and they are 20 inches - so not a lot of difference.

I have checked the trailer unladen weight which is 1050 kilos ( you were right Eric). On each trip we took four maiden heifers which would have averaged 450 kilos (+/- 10 kilos) each so I don't think we were pulling more than about 3 tons in total. I don't know what the weight would have been on the tow hitch.

I am interested if the front spring ratings are different between the various grenadier configurations as that would explain a lot. It did occur to me last night that my Grenadier has a front winch fitted (never used) and that probably adds 40 kilos or so right under the front bumper which might improve the front end traction over that on the loan car that I have.

We were only towing for a mile or so (to get cattle back to the yard for TB testing) but below 30mph the steering was fine - the more you went above this the lighter the steering became.

@Bayford there is a big thread somewhere on this forum about different front spring ratings, certainly if you have the front winch fitted you do have different springs to non winch vehicles.

IdahoGrenadier · Jun 10, 2024

JKLIVIN said:
Thank you, that’s helpful… I’m still looking for some real world experience regarding length of trailer vs wheelbase of tow rig. I’d love to tow my 28ft Featherlite race car trailer with the Grenadier, and in curious, if other owners of this awesome new SUV, I’ve been courageous enough to try pulling something so long, and how the experience was. I will probably be at max weight with the GCVWR.

This boat is about 27' long. Not sure what the trailer adds in length. I'll plead the 5th about whether it may or may not be a foot wider than is strictly legal. Around 6500 lbs between the trailer and boat. I towed it up ID55 from Boise to Donnelly. Very curvy mountain road for 2 hours at 70mph, plenty of 7%+ grades up and down for 5+ miles at a time.

Towing feels very comfortable. No squat. The truck actually feels better, like it wants the weight. I came from an F-150 3.5L Ecoboost rated for 10.6klbs towing and it wasn't much of a drop in confidence. Even the big hills I was able to keep speed up. Gear selection kept me off the brakes too much on the extended downhill sections.

I used to tow a similar-sized sailboat with my FJ Cruiser near its 5k limit. Would get squirrelly and trouble with sway above 65mph sometimes. Only place I can get the Grenadier unhappy is above 80mph or hitting the brakes in a hard turn above 65-70. Plus, I can get the straps and tools in and out of the little back door with the trailer hooked on, unlike my FJ's full-width swinger.

The need to tow my boat was the primary reason I let my Bronco reservation lapse. The Grenadier exceeded my expectations here and I'd have no reservations about going to the legal max weight. The F-150 is on the consignment lot as we speak.

Bayford · Jun 12, 2024

IdahoGrenadier said:
This boat is about 27' long. Not sure what the trailer adds in length. I'll plead the 5th about whether it may or may not be a foot wider than is strictly legal. Around 6500 lbs between the trailer and boat. I towed it up ID55 from Boise to Donnelly. Very curvy mountain road for 2 hours at 70mph, plenty of 7%+ grades up and down for 5+ miles at a time.

Towing feels very comfortable. No squat. The truck actually feels better, like it wants the weight. I came from an F-150 3.5L Ecoboost rated for 10.6klbs towing and it wasn't much of a drop in confidence. Even the big hills I was able to keep speed up. Gear selection kept me off the brakes too much on the extended downhill sections.

I used to tow a similar-sized sailboat with my FJ Cruiser near its 5k limit. Would get squirrelly and trouble with sway above 65mph sometimes. Only place I can get the Grenadier unhappy is above 80mph or hitting the brakes in a hard turn above 65-70. Plus, I can get the straps and tools in and out of the little back door with the trailer hooked on, unlike my FJ's full-width swinger.

The need to tow my boat was the primary reason I let my Bronco reservation lapse. The Grenadier exceeded my expectations here and I'd have no reservations about going to the legal max weight. The F-150 is on the consignment lot as we speak.

Bayford · Jun 12, 2024

IdahoGrenadier said:
This boat is about 27' long. Not sure what the trailer adds in length. I'll plead the 5th about whether it may or may not be a foot wider than is strictly legal. Around 6500 lbs between the trailer and boat. I towed it up ID55 from Boise to Donnelly. Very curvy mountain road for 2 hours at 70mph, plenty of 7%+ grades up and down for 5+ miles at a time.

Towing feels very comfortable. No squat. The truck actually feels better, like it wants the weight. I came from an F-150 3.5L Ecoboost rated for 10.6klbs towing and it wasn't much of a drop in confidence. Even the big hills I was able to keep speed up. Gear selection kept me off the brakes too much on the extended downhill sections.

I used to tow a similar-sized sailboat with my FJ Cruiser near its 5k limit. Would get squirrelly and trouble with sway above 65mph sometimes. Only place I can get the Grenadier unhappy is above 80mph or hitting the brakes in a hard turn above 65-70. Plus, I can get the straps and tools in and out of the little back door with the trailer hooked on, unlike my FJ's full-width swinger.

The need to tow my boat was the primary reason I let my Bronco reservation lapse. The Grenadier exceeded my expectations here and I'd have no reservations about going to the legal max weight. The F-150 is on the consignment lot as we speak.

Hello IdahoGrenadier,

I am impressed that you can tow your boat at 80mph - we are limited to 60mph in the UK I tow a similar sized boat about 26 feet long and with a deadweight of about 4,500 pounds excluding trailer weight. She is mahogany rather than composite and I like to tow at about 45mph as I don't think that it does the ash frames much good to bounce around at high speed. It tends to open the clinker planking up a bit. Its when towing that I really envy owners of fiberglass boats. I love the fact that you can tow small sailboats. It hugely extends your cruising or racing range when the boat itself maxes out at about 6 knots and as long as you accept that it is camping on board rather than five star luxury life is good. I have not yet towed the boat with the grenadier but it tows easily and well with the Landcruiser and I am sure it will with the Grenadier - when i finally get it back from the dealer.

IdahoGrenadier · Jun 12, 2024

Bayford said:
Hello IdahoGrenadier,

I am impressed that you can tow your boat at 80mph - we are limited to 60mph in the UK I tow a similar sized boat about 26 feet long and with a deadweight of about 4,500 pounds excluding trailer weight. She is mahogany rather than composite and I like to tow at about 45mph as I don't think that it does the ash frames much good to bounce around at high speed. It tends to open the clinker planking up a bit. Its when towing that I really envy owners of fiberglass boats. I love the fact that you can tow small sailboats. It hugely extends your cruising or racing range when the boat itself maxes out at about 6 knots and as long as you accept that it is camping on board rather than five star luxury life is good. I have not yet towed the boat with the grenadier but it tows easily and well with the Landcruiser and I am sure it will with the Grenadier - when i finally get it back from the dealer.

That's a nice looking boat! I used to have a beautiful International 505 that had mahogany veneer over carbon tanks. I'd walk back to it in the parking lot and there'd be a crowd waiting to ask questions. Much like driving a Grenadier.

America, especially out West, is definitely different than the UK. In Idaho, our controlled-access roads are speed-limited to 80 mph. Two lane highways are outside of cities are 65, although everyone drives 75 on them. In the mountains, the speeds are 65 or sometimes slower for particularly congested areas. Idaho also has a law that if you have 2 or more vehicles behind you, you have to pull out at the turnouts we provide in the mountains. Lots of RVs (caravans) and trailers in the mountains gumming up the free flow of traffic.

But you need those higher speeds to get anywhere. I hopped over to pick this boat up at the Sweet Grass/Coutts border crossing with Canada next door in Montana. From Boise that was 700 miles each way. The guy I met there had just driven 3000 miles from Halifax with it.

I don't know how you all drive a real vehicle on some of those roads, though. I was just in Normandy driving a BMW and was at times wishing for something more manageable

Bayford · Jun 12, 2024

IdahoGrenadier said:
That's a nice looking boat! I used to have a beautiful International 505 that had mahogany veneer over carbon tanks. I'd walk back to it in the parking lot and there'd be a crowd waiting to ask questions. Much like driving a Grenadier.

America, especially out West, is definitely different than the UK. In Idaho, our controlled-access roads are speed-limited to 80 mph. Two lane highways are outside of cities are 65, although everyone drives 75 on them. In the mountains, the speeds are 65 or sometimes slower for particularly congested areas. Idaho also has a law that if you have 2 or more vehicles behind you, you have to pull out at the turnouts we provide in the mountains. Lots of RVs (caravans) and trailers in the mountains gumming up the free flow of traffic.

But you need those higher speeds to get anywhere. I hopped over to pick this boat up at the Sweet Grass/Coutts border crossing with Canada next door in Montana. From Boise that was 700 miles each way. The guy I met there had just driven 3000 miles from Halifax with it.

I don't know how you all drive a real vehicle on some of those roads, though. I was just in Normandy driving a BMW and was at times wishing for something more manageable

The boat in the photograph is a Nordic Folkboat - old design (1942) but lovely to sail. You have a decent fleet of them in San Francisco Bay where they suit the windy and choppy conditions. I raced them there years ago - lovely guys who would lend boats to the Brits, Danes, Swedes and Finns who turned up for their international regattas. We do the same when they come to the UK.

Lovely 505 - I used to look admiringly at them back in the late 1970's when I crewed on a friends Fireball for two or three seasons. The 505's were a bit faster than us and much more beautiful as they had curves rather than the angular hard chines of the fireball.

I know what you mean about driving on the narrow roads in Normandy. My wife is from New Jersey and when her parents used to come and stay with us in the UK they were distinctly uncomfortable driving on our narrow country roads in Somerset. They struggled to get round the concept of reversing when you met another car until you reached a passing spot on single lane roads. This coupled with the fact that we drive on the "wrong" side of the road and back in the 90's only had stick shifts that they had to work with their left hands gave them a driving experience that they weren't overly keen on.

Wombat51 · Jun 15, 2024

Kimberley Touring Western Australia

I have just returned from a trip to the Kimberley region of Western Australia in my diesel Grenadier Trialmaster, towing a 16ft hybrid pop-top off road caravan (tare weight 2000kg, loaded weight about 2400kg, tow ball weight approx 230kg).

Covered 8500km in 31 days: Perth to Kununurra (for the Ord River Muster) via Meekatharra, Newman, Port Hedland, 80 Mile Beach, Fitzroy Crossing and Halls Creek. A few days at Lake Argyle then back to El Questro Station (off the Gibb River Road) to Mt Hart Station via Halls Creek and Fitzroy Crossing (Gibb River Rd direct to Mt Hart from the north east was closed due to high water at the Pentecost River crossing), Derby, Dampier Peninsula/Cape Leveque (for 3 days), back to the Great Northern Highway (via Marble Bar) and home to Perth.

I was very nervous before I set out: no Ineos service centres in WA other than Perth and no spares north of Perth.

The Grenadier never missed a beat, fantastic to drive over long distances (even when towing), 6 – 8 hours at the wheel most days, comfortable Recaro seats. Brilliant performance on the roads, both corrugated dirt and bitumen, plenty of power for overtaking 60 meter road trains (even uphill) and reasonable fuel consumption (overall average for the 8500km was 15.3 L/100km and about 80% of the total distance was towing). The right hand drive, left foot hump is a total non-issue for me…… don’t even notice it.

14.5 to 16.0 L/100km towing with a tailwind and 16.0 to 17.8 into a headwind or in hilly terrain (according to the average fuel consumption on the info system). The vehicle with caravan sits happily in 8th gear at 1600rpm, handles gentle uphill slopes without a downshift and only drops into 7th (or occasionally 6th gear) on the steeper hills. I usually sat on 90 - 95km/hr into the wind and 95 – 100km/hr downwind. Fuel consumption rises rapidly above 100km/hr when towing, especially into the wind.

This is the best and most capable long distance touring vehicle I have ever driven. It handled beach sand, rough corrugated dirt roads, flooded creek crossings, rough rocky terrain and slippery muddy tracks with ease (while towing). I engaged low gear and the central locker (plus wading mode) fairly often, but never looked like needing the rear or front axle lockers.

My caravan is two wheel with independent trailing arm suspension,12 inch electric drum brakes and 265/75/R16 mud terrain tyres on alloy rims (I carry two spares). A Redarc Tow-Pro Elite electronic brake controller is fitted to the Trialmaster.

Cheers
Wombat51

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