Vehicle rejected after 4 months off the road due to steering geometry being unroadworthy!!!

DaveB · Jun 1, 2024

bbq4133 said:
Scrolled through 4 pages, still don't see the engineering report. Is it real?

I got the impression he just doesn't like recirculating ball steering.
Making such a big deal about the little line at the top of the steering wheel being not perfectly at the straight ahead point, honestly who cares.

bigleonski · Jun 1, 2024

I spent the majority of yesterday driving dirt and bitumen country roads and tracks that the guys on adventure bikes seek out. Not 4wding as such, but a mixture of lovely open roads across farmland and lots of tight and twisty mountain tracks and roads (both dirt and bitumen and light / moderate rain so slippery) that really gave the steering wheel a workout over an extended period of time. (Pic of the last section of the trip below gives you some idea)

I have to say that the grenny excelled and handled much better in those conditions than I expected it to. I was honestly impressed.

Around town driving is where the grenadier tends to be substandard. Steering is heavy and most people (the average punter) won’t like it. But it adds character that a boring suv doesn’t have, and after yesterday, for me the grenadier proved why I’m happy with my choice. Loved it.

landmannnn · Jun 1, 2024

bigleonski said:
I spent the majority of yesterday driving dirt and bitumen country roads and tracks that the guys on adventure bikes seek out. Not 4wding as such, but a mixture of lovely open roads across farmland and lots of tight and twisty mountain tracks and roads (both dirt and bitumen and light / moderate rain so slippery) that really gave the steering wheel a workout over an extended period of time. (Pic of the last section of the trip below gives you some idea)

I have to say that the grenny excelled and handled much better in those conditions than I expected it to. I was honestly impressed.

Around town driving is where the grenadier tends to be substandard. Steering is heavy and most people (the average punter) won’t like it. But it adds character that a boring suv doesn’t have, and after yesterday, for me the grenadier proved why I’m happy with my choice. Loved it.

View attachment 7858545

We need pictures!

parb · Jun 1, 2024

Unless the issue is unique to UK models a US regulator will care.
Dieselgate became a global issue even though the findings was from a university in the US.

Max · Jun 1, 2024

bigleonski said:
I spent the majority of yesterday driving dirt and bitumen country roads and tracks that the guys on adventure bikes seek out. Not 4wding as such, but a mixture of lovely open roads across farmland and lots of tight and twisty mountain tracks and roads (both dirt and bitumen and light / moderate rain so slippery) that really gave the steering wheel a workout over an extended period of time. (Pic of the last section of the trip below gives you some idea)

I have to say that the grenny excelled and handled much better in those conditions than I expected it to. I was honestly impressed.

Around town driving is where the grenadier tends to be substandard. Steering is heavy and most people (the average punter) won’t like it. But it adds character that a boring suv doesn’t have, and after yesterday, for me the grenadier proved why I’m happy with my choice. Loved it.

View attachment 7858545

Glad to see we are liking our vehicles... your steering around town will improve with more PSI. I would suggest having a play with that until it is easier and then air down when back in the dirt and we are missing (Pic of the last section of the trip below gives you some idea)happy motoring

Edit: I get it, the pic is the map

bigleonski · Jun 1, 2024

landmannnn said:
We need pictures!

Sorry for the thread hijack - we’re talking about shit steering right??

Sorry mate, not many pics taken unfortunately. I did get the guy I was traveling with to video one of the water crossings, although I was mucking about and went through it much more quickly than I normally would.

Here’s a pic of some locals that gave me some trouble along the way. Oh, and proof I got it a little dirty, but not much.

MileHigh · Jun 5, 2024

I went on the Red Noland Dealer 4WD introduction last week and then drove 90 minutes back to Denver on 67, which doesn’t have a straight-a-way for more then 200 yards. Paved and unpaved. Not a problem with the steering. On the way down I had it up to 95mph on the highway and had some rapid slow-downs, no issues. Usually just one handed it with left hand and elbow on the window sill. I came from a Escalade, which is just rolling qualude so I know a good road set up feels like.

Maybe it isn’t a nimble as my wife’s X5. Maybe some people in the EU have early ones that are more buggy. I don’t have the K02s, so maybe something there, but I doubt it.

Yes IG is working out the optimal settings- and getting those pushed out to the field, but not making it undrivable.

SkiBum1 · Jun 5, 2024

A lot of people with early versions did have some issues for sure. Fortunately, here in the US our deliveries were delayed but I think they sorted out a lot of the issues, thank God! I am sorry for your troubles. I do love mine, no issues at all after 3,000 miles. It is my favorite car in the stable and I drive it every day. When they are operating properly they are wonderful vehicles.

MRO · Jun 5, 2024

I have a VIN around 1200 so one of the earliest ones. I have had only two issues; false warnings and a sticking door button. The latter was fixed by dealer and the software update fixed the former. The tracking was poor until everything wore in (tyres?) and MPG (diesel Trialmaster) is now 24-25, acceptable.

I imagine I am one of the many (usually) silent happy owners with nothing to complain about. I recommend it to many friends, subject to a proper test drive so that they understand what they are buying. A 4wd not an SUV.

CRH · Jun 5, 2024

MRO said:
I have a VIN around 1200 so one of the earliest ones. I have had only two issues; false warnings and a sticking door button. The latter was fixed by dealer and the software update fixed the former. The tracking was poor until everything wore in (tyres?) and MPG (diesel Trialmaster) is now 24-25, acceptable.

I imagine I am one of the many (usually) silent happy owners with nothing to complain about. I recommend it to many friends, subject to a proper test drive so that they understand what they are buying. A 4wd not an SUV.

I am also a very happy owner and would recommend in the same vane. I have had issues but I would also never recommend anyone to do what 'we' have done and buy a brand new model vehicle without expecting some teething issues. I would have been shocked if we hadn't any. I find no issue at all with the steering and can merrily drive along one handed or use both when necessary, I jump from sportscar to Grenadier without any problems. We do have a car from the 60's with worm and roller steering, now that has some play going in a straight line and does also not self centre. If you expect it to drive like an Audi Q8, buy an Audi Q8. If you want a proper truck that is built for purpose, buy a Grenadier and get used to it, it's not hard.
I'm about 5'8" and have no problems with the RHD foot rest, seat upright and set back, lovely and comfortable and like many people I have back problems too.

dreamalaska · Jun 5, 2024

MRO said:
I have a VIN around 1200 so one of the earliest ones. I have had only two issues; false warnings and a sticking door button. The latter was fixed by dealer and the software update fixed the former. The tracking was poor until everything wore in (tyres?) and MPG (diesel Trialmaster) is now 24-25, acceptable.

I imagine I am one of the many (usually) silent happy owners with nothing to complain about. I recommend it to many friends, subject to a proper test drive so that they understand what they are buying. A 4wd not an SUV.

FWIW, for the B57 Diesel engine, UK24-25 MPG = US20-21 MPG

Imo that modest increase in MPG savings over the B58 petrol version wouldn’t justify the increased operating life cycle cost of the diesel’s emissions system DEF fluid and other required maintenance. The older BMW diesels were a bear to maintain as they aged.

Jackattack13 · Jun 5, 2024

I don't think this thread was to highlight that ALL grens have steering issues, just what one consumer experienced. My Gren steers fantastic! In fact, when I move from my Gren to my 100 Series LC, the LC now feels heavy and sluggish. The only complaint I had was the wheel was extremely off-center. I had the dealership fix that issue. Insisting that they DO NOT touch anything else because it drove so well. LOL.

Its good for folks to share their experiences to start building depth in the knowledge base of the forum. That is why I am sharing my experience battling electrical gremlins, for educational purposes of those who are also experiencing issues. They can then take that data with them to the dealer.

pmatusov · Jun 6, 2024

Lars said:
""Didn't we all take a gamble when buying these?""

Maybe, but with all that said, would you recommend buying the Grenadier to close family member or friend who doesn't share your almost blind devotion the the brand? I don't know.

I certainly would. Especially to the people with blind devotion to Land Rover.

Lars · Jun 7, 2024

pmatusov said:
I certainly would. Especially to the people with blind devotion to Land Rover.

Yes same demographic. Still, I'm not sure about recommending the current LR models either!!!

bbq4133 · Jun 7, 2024

I would, and have, happily recommended this to friends, families, and coworkers.

flynnsk · Jun 18, 2024

MalcolmT said:
Hi Jean Mercier,
Sorry to DaveB. It is an Ineos style of intervention. Ineos are blocking the press from publishing or commenting on or about any of the known inherent steering geometry issues. They were identified on prototype vehicles and never engineered out. Magna, Austria engineered but have never issued any updated parts? So if a manufacturer has a problem, sort it or these days accept the customers media complaints of no resolution after 4 months. Never answering phone calls, emails since December 2023 to End of March 2024. That is not bad luck. That is ducking THEIR PROBLEMS. Treating customers like they do not even exist will be the death of the IG. I do not think they can save the ongoing failure to handle THEIR vehicle’s failings that needs urgent re-engineering - it will not disappear, and is definitely killing their sales.
I have not had bad luck. Just experienced a total lack of Ineos after sales engineering back up to the service agents.

I keep seeing/reading about this supposed report, accusations that Ineos is committing fraud and knowingly shipping an unsafe product. Yet, no proof. If one were to take the post/thread at face value.. ie a "random guy" on the internet makes accusations concerning a multi-national Chemical company (again with no substantiated proof).. right up there with "my cousin is a juror".

Given the lack of actual proof, i believe @Shopkeep summarized this perfectly:

Shopkeep said:
If you spent more than five minutes here you would know that DaveB is a Grenadier owner and that the steering oddities are well known and there are solutions for most of them. The pre production vehicles steered like this and the demo vehicles steered like this, and surprise surprise your vehicle steers like this.

Gets my goat when the only contribution people make to this forum is taking a dump on their way out the door. Real story here is man buys car, finds he does not like it and gets his money back.

[ Adam ] · Jun 18, 2024

This whole thread should be deleted, OP has failed to bring any documentation or proof of these wild accusations.

CRH · Jun 18, 2024

[ Adam ] said:
This whole thread should be deleted, OP has failed to bring any documentation or proof of these wild accusations.

Has anyone looked at all of the posts by initial owner of this thread. All putting INEOS & the Grenadier down, constantly complaining. Now it's not impossible to have had a bad experience with a vehicle, it happens with the best manufacturers, just look at VW with their electric ID's and Telsla's. Paying a lot of money for in effect is a commercial vehicle some people are expecting more. Any production process has faults and complaints at times, I know, I have to help customers understand nothing is perfect all of the time. My products are cheap mass produced but are expected to perfect. It's infuriating when people don't get back to you but if you are jumping up and down like a lunatic and expecting unrealistic answers it is harder for them to speak to you and have the desire, we need to remember they are human too and go home worrying about all their work problems and having to deal with these types again.
Sometimes things go wrong and you can't explain and the person you are dealing with is unreasonable, it's hard to help that kind of person.
Cars get mad wrong by all manufacturers and rejected. Ours is a new manufacturer that had to get a vehicle out after the COVID outbreak and has had to deal with the same problems that all have had with supply and staffing. Sadly they may have had to rush the vehicle out sooner due to COVID delays, but that's just a guess.
Anyway, I'm with you, delete this thread as it's giving a distorted view.

bikesandguitars · Jun 19, 2024

The OP was a very early adopter. Maybe he did? Maybe he didn’t? We can’t know for sure. What we can know for sure is that the vast majority of early complaints have been addressed.

The old adage about “bad news being halfway around the world before good news has a chance to tie its shoes” is appropriate. The complainers were the vocal majority in the beginning. That’s just human nature. With more owners coming aboard, the tide has turned. People are finally realizing they didn’t really buy a luxury, family SUV - and most love it.

Personally, I enjoy the tactile response - and I mean that sincerely - the touch and feel of the steering is what I prefer when compared to the rack and pinion, power steering variant. I wouldn’t change it.

I own two Grenadiers - his and hers. Mine is a semi-dedicated off-roader. My wife’s is a mall crawler (for now) - but it’s a n mall crawler at 7,000 feet elevation living on a dirt road in an agricultural community. Like a lot of the USA, we actually don’t have a mall nearby anymore.

Based on my experiences with Ineos, I’m going to forfeit my Tacoma Trailhunter reservation for a Quarter Master. That’s probably the best endorsement I can give.

But I would like a new windshield… damn dirt roads.

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Vehicle rejected after 4 months off the road due to steering geometry being unroadworthy!!!

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