Leaking Safari Roof and Door Seals Flooding The Car And other Leaks and Problems

dreamalaska · May 2, 2024

New vehicle Warranty Fraud by dealer’s making false claims has been an ongoing problem in the industry since the beginning. Good on you for getting on them! Since Ineos is new to the vultures of the dealership world I hope they arent set up internally to get fleeced, since they already have more than enough legitimate issues to pay out on. I imagine the service department at your dealer (who shall remain unnamed) wont be getting any donuts from you anytime soon.

I’ve also noticed recently dealers have been pretty quiet on the site

rovie · May 2, 2024

nodric said:
Well the car has been home for a few days and last night we had the first heavy rain since I got it back. The dealership is abysmal and simply lied to me. They claimed to have replaced the door seal on the drivers door and "glued" as an official fix the passenger door.

The following photos and video will speak for themselves. They DID NOT replace the drivers door seal despite their work order saying they had, and they left the glued seal in a right state. And the car flooded and water ingress was again there.

In addition they broke two of the wiring boxed on the roof line and tried to bodge a repair using super glue. I spotted this at collection and raised it with them. They apologized and have ordered replacements. The fact they relied to hide this and what the photos and video will now show will speak volumes.

The divers door seal was reattached by me temporarily when I first reported the fault and that's how I found it today. No one had done any repairs to that side.

And just so you know, the sunroof repairs are a glueing of the original seals and NOT a replacement as expected. See work orders attached.

I have exploded at the service director on email today and will keep you posted.

Click here for video.

Hi @nodric that is an absolute cheek. Gluing with superglue is not an option! If you have the choice and there is another dealer nearby or within an acceptable distance, change dealer.
When I picked up my vehicle a year ago, I also had water ingress. The dealer stuck the seal back on with double-sided adhesive tape after cleaning it properly. I kept telling him that I didn't want a cut-out in the seal. He didn't do that either. Since then I have had no more water in the door.

Karearea · May 3, 2024

I’m very interested in all this as I have the water flooding issue too. No holes in seals and they all seem firmly attached to the door. Am scratching my head and doing further analysis. Currently think it’s only on one side but want to park “on a lean” towards the dry side so I can see if this changes anything. Might do this “front to back” too, so as to assess if that changes anything.
I’ll report back as rain coming

letmedriveTX · May 3, 2024

nodric said:
They just came and fetched my car and left me another Grenadier. They had no choice but to accept their techs had failed. The saga will continue...

Thank you for documenting your issues and the progress being made. I hope your situation gets remedied in a professional manner. I was wondering if you have suggested to the Service Director that he/we could benefit by him participating in this forum? We all are on the same team working towards success with this new product and collaboration might be the best way forward. As you can see in my banner my status is "Ordered" and I live in Texas so you can only guess why I am following your struggles so closely. All the best to you and thank you for sharing!

nodric · May 4, 2024

rovie said:
Hi @nodric that is an absolute cheek. Gluing with superglue is not an option! If you have the choice and there is another dealer nearby or within an acceptable distance, change dealer.
When I picked up my vehicle a year ago, I also had water ingress. The dealer stuck the seal back on with double-sided adhesive tape after cleaning it properly. I kept telling him that I didn't want a cut-out in the seal. He didn't do that either. Since then I have had no more water in the door.

I am going to make the hike to Houston if this continues. If Texas was smaller it would help.

nodric · May 4, 2024

Karearea said:
I’m very interested in all this as I have the water flooding issue too. No holes in seals and they all seem firmly attached to the door. Am scratching my head and doing further analysis. Currently think it’s only on one side but want to park “on a lean” towards the dry side so I can see if this changes anything. Might do this “front to back” too, so as to assess if that changes anything.
I’ll report back as rain coming

Do you have the sunroofs fitted?

nodric · May 4, 2024

dreamalaska said:
New vehicle Warranty Fraud by dealer’s making false claims has been an ongoing problem in the industry since the beginning. Good on you for getting on them! Since Ineos is new to the vultures of the dealership world I hope they arent set up internally to get fleeced, since they already have more than enough legitimate issues to pay out on. I imagine the service department at your dealer (who shall remain unnamed) wont be getting any donuts from you anytime soon.

I’ve also noticed recently dealers have been pretty quiet on the site

I mention the forum to the dealer. They are very dismissive of it/us, and just say "we have to do what Ineos tells us"...

nodric · May 4, 2024

I reached out to the Group VP of Sewell on LinkedIn where I have an established presence. He emailed me back and then I got a call from the GM. Very apologetic and promising action. I did tell them this was not the time to attack their techs, lest they make them even more scared to hold up their hands when they mess up, but it was an opportunity for improvement.

I think it is a case of poorly experienced techs on the brand, and pressure to get stuff done, and probably poor support from Ineos. But I might just be making excuses for them.

Heavy rain coming tonight so leaving the loaner out (a Fieldmaster with sunroofs) to see if it leaks.

Karearea · May 5, 2024

Karearea said:
I’m very interested in all this as I have the water flooding issue too. No holes in seals and they all seem firmly attached to the door. Am scratching my head and doing further analysis. Currently think it’s only on one side but want to park “on a lean” towards the dry side so I can see if this changes anything. Might do this “front to back” too, so as to assess if that changes anything.
I’ll report back as rain coming

Ok….
So I parked overnight with the right hand side lower than the other, but also the rear of the vehicle lower than the front.
(I know… changing two variables not an ideal variation but that’s how my driveway is!)
Anyway - zero boot wash on both sides of the vehicle

This suggests to me that when the vehicle is nose down it attracts water into the door areas, so maybe there’s something amiss with the way water is evacuated off the gutters up top

I will try and park nose down and right side down next

Karearea · May 5, 2024

nodric said:
Do you have the sunroofs fitted?

No sunroofs

Krabby · May 5, 2024

nodric said:
I mention the forum to the dealer. They are very dismissive of it/us, and just say "we have to do what Ineos tells us"...

Not sure what the distances are like, but we have a strong ally in @Mossy Ineos Grenadier TX !

nodric · May 5, 2024

Last night (May 4th 2024) we had heavy rains again in North Texas, and the video linked to this post will show the update. This is a brand new loan vehicle (1800 miles) while they have mine. A 2024 Field Master.

This is definitely a design/engineering issue with the door seals. When the seals are intact the water collects in the sills as the seals form a prefect "seal" and as the volume of water increases it is spilling into the foot well. It seems to leak under the kick trim and pools in the footwell under the floor covering. When the outer door seal is not intact and faulty due to lack of adhesion the problems does not occur. This is because the water has an escape path.

This is a definite design flaw and I have no idea how they are going to correct this bar cutting a slice out of the door seal to allow water to drain with the unintended consequence of allowing water to ingress when wading in your overland vehicle

Of course they might look into how to avoid water getting into the void in the door shut, but that would probably be a major redesign.

In Texas the Lemon Law gives the dealer 2 chances to fix the same problem, or if the car is gone 30 days or more. Lawyers charge no win no fee as the dealer has to pay the legal costs if the claim is upheld, as well as buy back the car and cover all the buyers losses. This is round 2 of their attempt to fix the door seals. I really do not see how this will be resolved without an Ineos engineering fix.

FYI Sir Jim never responded to the Twitter post I tagged him in with a link to this forum.

Here is the latest video - click me.

nodric · May 5, 2024

@Mossy Ineos Grenadier TX Have you found a solution for these issues? My dealer is in their figuring it out phase.

Zimm · May 5, 2024

So... Is this deluge only? Is it not enough water during light showers, so, maybe it's happening to a good many other cars but they don't notice? Granted there are way too many trucks with this issue, but it seems most if not all the remaining trucks would have to have defective installs for this not to be endemic.

nodric · May 5, 2024

Zimm said:
So... Is this deluge only? Is it not enough water during light showers, so, maybe it's happening to a good many other cars but they don't notice? Granted there are way too many trucks with this issue, but it seems most if not all the remaining trucks would have to have defective installs for this not to be endemic.

Yes, sample size is an issue, and not everyone parks outside and not everyone has the heavy rain we do here. Short of doing a global poll (not sure how we would do that) then we have to rely on the honesty of dealers and Ineos to acknowledge the issue. I have seen YouTube videos from people in Oz who have the same issues.

There has to be a sustained enough rainfall to cause the collection and pooling I am demonstrating.

The detaching door seals is a known and acknowledged issue at Ineos, as is the sunroofs leaking. Both have dealer fixes and are being authorized by Ineos, so that much is clear. The reason for the door collecting and pooling and gushing on opening is NOT yet acknowledge and no know fix is being offered, at least by my dealer. Ineos have also not replied to me on a cause or a fix. Their Helpdesk answers fast then goes dark.

Tangent: Anyone had their free jackets yet, apart from those in the UK? Thought so, me either.

Zimm · May 5, 2024

nodric said:
Yes, sample size is an issue, and not everyone parks outside and not everyone has the heavy rain we do here. Short of doing a global poll (not sure how we would do that) then we have to rely on the honesty of dealers and Ineos to acknowledge the issue. I have seen YouTube videos from people in Oz who have the same issues.

There has to be a sustained enough rainfall to cause the collection and pooling I am demonstrating.

The detaching door seals is a known and acknowledged issue at Ineos, as is the sunroofs leaking. Both have dealer fixes and are being authorized by Ineos, so that much is clear. The reason for the door collecting and pooling and gushing on opening is NOT yet acknowledge and no know fix is being offered, at least by my dealer. Ineos have also not replied to me on a cause or a fix. Their Helpdesk answers fast then goes dark.

Tangent: Anyone had their free jackets yet, apart from those in the UK? Thought so, me either.

I guess where I'm a little stumped, is, where on the door seal is it getting behind it in the first place, that it needs to be drained at the bottom? I'd be dumping buckets of plumbers dye on the rood at this point.

nodric · May 5, 2024

Zimm said:
I guess where I'm a little stumped, is, where on the door seal is it getting behind it in the first place, that it needs to be drained at the bottom? I'd be dumping buckets of plumbers dye on the rood at this point.

I though about that as well. My 4Runner 2016 TRD Pro has the same two door seals. No water gets between them and the door shuts stay dry. The water, as best as we can tell, gets down the B pillar in the door shut. The fact the rear doors do not have the same issue seems to suggest either a body design issue or a door seal design issue. Even my old Defender didn't have these issues.

It may be the panel gap between the door and the door pillar that is allowing water to get into the channel?

Even if the water does not pool and collect it should probably not do this anyway. It just soaks the inner door frame and allows dirt to collect where the water drains away. Instant dirty car.

nodric · May 5, 2024

@Zimm you made me go look at something. I think I may have figured out how the water is in the door shut. It is NOT the B pillar but it is the A pillar. The following photos I just took show water stains and even water still from last night. The rest of the door in the B pillar is dry as a bone.

I think the rubber trim on the end of the roof rain gutter (the car naturally slopes forwards towards it) is channeling the water into the A pillar. That's how the water is getting into the door shut. As it pours of the roof it deluges the door shut. Add the gaping gaps in the door seals and the water easily ingresses.

The rubber corners are crap. Just pushed on with a single securing screw. I bet if we removed them or glued them on properly the problem would go away. The shape and design, even if glued, may of course be the issue as the water is forced to overflow and deluge the door shut.

This also is why the rear doors do not exhibit this issue even when they have the same seal adhesion issues.

I may remove those rubber trims as a temporary countermeasure and see if it solves the problem. Next experiment would be to channel the water by adding some extension pieces while it stands in heavy rain. It's basic home guttering work!

nodric · May 5, 2024

OK BIG UPDATE!!!

I have four the problem. We have a design flaw. Watch this video. Enough said

This video shows the issue. Click here. Video quality will improve as YouTube processes it.

It's a deign flaw folks.

nodric · May 5, 2024

And as final proof of the design issue I gift you this.

Click me for the video.

Now where do I send my invoice to Ineos for the engineer root cause analysis? How did no one work this out yet?

If the doors seals are correctly fitted, and this gutter drainage problem solved, the car will not leak! The sunroof issue may be real but is a red herring in this fault finding.

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Leaking Safari Roof and Door Seals Flooding The Car And other Leaks and Problems

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