Diff locks or not?

stickshifter · Feb 8, 2024

Krabby said:
I don't disagree that something more manual would make more sense with respect to the INEOS ethos. Likewise, it's understandable why they did not; what's not understandable though it why they went with the activation and deactivation method they did. Old school trucks like the Hi Lux and 70 series either have a "normal" on-off button or knob that doesn't require any special sequence to activate or deactivate.

With respect to Dana - according to the data I could dig up, Jeep sold over 500 million Wranglers in the US and about 220 million Gladiators over the past three years - so let's just say around 750,000 total units. That means that over the last three years, Jeep has purchased no less than 1.5 million axles from Dana. Add to that the hundreds of thousands of RAM products that use Danas too and you could triple, maybe quadruple that number. That said, Stu and I have discussed this and have come to think that perhaps Jeep suggested to Dana to not sell axles to INEOS. I do not know this for a fact and neither Stu or I have any insider information, but it's a pretty convincing theory.

Interesting indeed. I don't know how Dana licenses or if they do. For example, does a company like Dynatrac, which makes Dana-style axles exclusively, pay Dana a licensing fee? I would think that exclusive patents have expired, and that anyone can make a Dana-style axle now. To me, Dynatrac was a great fit for Ineos. It is a relatively small company that makes some of the highest quality off-road axles in the world.

The Dynatrac Pro-Rock axles are:
(1) super-strong
(2) have excellent ground clearance
(3) can be ordered with your choice of gears: 4.10, 4.56. 4.88, 5.13, 5.38
(4) your choice of lockers: Ox manual lockers, ARB air lockers, Eaton e-lockers, Auburn ECTED Max locker
(5) and the front axles can be spec'd as free-spin - i.e. with manual locking hubs if you want (obviously not relevant for a full-time 4x4 like the Grenadier, but a super-cool option for folks with part-time 4-wheel drive and who upgrade their axles to the Dynatrac 60).

Dynatrac axles are made in the U.S. and the workmanship is outstanding. When I got a Pro-Rock 44 for my JK I didn't know whether I should put it under my Jeep or mount it on my wall. The thing was a work of art.

If I had to hazard a guess, I would guess that Ineos went with Carraro, in part because they make very good axles, and in part because they are a European firm. It seems that all the parts in the Grenadier - with the exception of the transfer case, which is made in Mexico - were sourced from European companies.

Just for kicks, here is a Pro Rock 60:

Dr. John · Feb 8, 2024

Top tip for engaging the low ratio: the central diff needs to be hot. It will not engage low/lock immediately on engine startup.

Dr. John · Feb 8, 2024

PBD said:
I have even more problems with mine, don't engage, red lights etc, even tells me they are engaged when they are not!
Don't get me started on the low range box, almost impossible to use on mine and it does have a new transfer box installed!

I put a quick note at the end of this thread which I’ll repeat here: let the transfer case warm up before attempting to engage low ratio or locked CD.

Tazzieman · Feb 8, 2024

Krabby said:
With respect to Dana - according to the data I could dig up, Jeep sold over 500 million Wranglers in the US and about 220 million Gladiators over the past three years -

That's a lot of Jeeps!

ECrider · Feb 8, 2024

Tazzieman said:
That's a lot of Jeeps!

what's a few extra zeros between forumites

Tazzieman · Feb 8, 2024

ECrider said:
what's a few extra zeros between forumites

stickshifter · Feb 8, 2024

Tazzieman said:
That's a lot of Jeeps!

In other news... the entire upper-management of Jeep suddenly retired, and have been seen house-shopping in Chamonix, Aspen, and Hawaii

stickshifter · Feb 8, 2024

For the record:

Wrangler Source: https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/jeep-wrangler-sales-figures/
Gladiator Source: https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/jeep-gladiator-sales-figures/

DaveB · Feb 8, 2024

Tazzieman said:
That's a lot of Jeeps!

That would be 657,534.247 vehicles per day.
Or 27,397.26 per hour.
456.62 per minute.
give those factory workers a break

Tazzieman · Feb 8, 2024

DaveB said:
That would be 657,534.247 vehicles per day.
Or 27,397.26 per hour.
456.62 per minute.
give those factory workers a break

How was maths for you at school?

DaveB · Feb 8, 2024

stickshifter said:
For the record:
View attachment 7843190
Wrangler Source: https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/jeep-wrangler-sales-figures/
Gladiator Source: https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/jeep-gladiator-sales-figures/

Even with the 5 year warranty they now do in Australia they still can't sell them.
Jeep sold 2,669 vehicles in 6 months last year across all Jeep models.
The people who did buy them will be pissed off because Jeep are now trying to sell the 2023 stock they still have at prices that are significantly lower than last years cheap prices.

stickshifter · Feb 8, 2024

DaveB said:
That would be 657,534.247 vehicles per day.
Or 27,397.26 per hour.
456.62 per minute.
give those factory workers a break

Ha ha! Yeah, the Jeep factory workers are killing it, but boy, those workers in Ireland and Norway must be super-human!

[ Adam ] · Feb 8, 2024

stickshifter said:
If I had to hazard a guess, I would guess that Ineos went with Carraro, in part because they make very good axles, and in part because they are a European firm. It seems that all the parts in the Grenadier - with the exception of the transfer case, which is made in Mexico - were sourced from European companies.

Given the global supply chain and shipping situation when the vehicle was being developed, and the logistics / costs of moving axles, transmissions and engines around the world - I think the decision to primarily source from continental Europe was prudent.

stickshifter · Feb 8, 2024

[ Adam ] said:
Given the global supply chain and shipping situation when the vehicle was being developed, and the logistics / costs of moving axles, transmissions and engines around the world - I think the decision to primarily source from continental Europe was prudent.

Yes, shipping those American axles:

Tazzieman · Feb 8, 2024

stickshifter said:
Yes, shipping those American axles:
View attachment 7843203

They might have tracking chips in them. Like the China side steps do

DaveB · Feb 8, 2024

stickshifter said:
Ha ha! Yeah, the Jeep factory workers are killing it, but boy, those workers in Ireland and Norway must be super-human!

View attachment 7843201

They only make hi dollar value small items and services so smart manufacturing

What are the main manufacturing industries in Ireland?

Ireland has strengths in a range of manufacturing sectors including Food, Medical Devices, Pharma/BioPharma, ICT, Plastics, Engineering and Green Technologies.

stickshifter · Feb 8, 2024

DaveB said:
They only make hi dollar value small items and services so smart manufacturing

What are the main manufacturing industries in Ireland?

Well, the graph was just intended to make a joke, but you can check out this link:
file:///C:/Users/Ianfe/Downloads/Ibec%20Manufacturing%2023.pdf

DaveB · Feb 8, 2024

Tazzieman said:
How was maths for you at school?

Do you get different numbers when you divide 720 million over 3 years??
As a side note I went to a selective school for gifted children (well that was wasted) finishing in 1978
I was tested in 1992 as part of a global employer development programme
It's all been downhill since then.

DaveB · Feb 8, 2024

stickshifter said:
Well, the graph was just intended to make a joke, but you can check out this link:
file:///C:/Users/Ianfe/Downloads/Ibec%20Manufacturing%2023.pdf

View attachment 7843210

Yeah i got that but then it intrigued me.
Ireland used to export potatoes but then they discovered there was more money in higher end intelligent products.
In Australia we mostly export dirt.

stickshifter · Feb 8, 2024

DaveB said:
Yeah i got that but then it intrigued me.
Ireland used to export potatoes but then they discovered there was more money in higher end intelligent products.
In Australia we mostly export dirt.

Yes, the transition from potatoes to high tech medical devices should have been easy to predict; lots of skill-crossover there. And if we are talking about the 19th century, we might need to put "export" in quotations. True, true, but there is a lot of stuff in that dirt that people really want.

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