Diff locks or not?

[470rigby]

Having been stuck too many times in a 100 series Landcruiser with the centre diff lock on, I would posit that any vehicle without locking diffs (or at least a limited slip diff) is not a true off-road vehicle. I also have a 2-wheel drive Mazda BT-50 (used to carry a slide-on camper) with a rear axle e-Locker by Harrop Engineering (made in Australia) which has better off-road capability than the 100 series. The Harrop e-Locker is a re-design of the proven Eaton diff for a range vehicles on the market in Australia. The Harrop diff is electrically actuated and does not require the installation of on on-board compressor which is required for the ARB locking diff. I believe that the locking diff used on the Grenadier in an Eaton diff. Not sure whether it is sourced from Harrop, or from Eaton in the USA.

 

[DaveB]

It's pretty simple
Have a look at this review/test and see what a massive difference proper diff locks make

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6ng66xBRM4

 

[grenadierboy]

The Eaton diff lockers are electronically acuated

 

[DaveB]

The Eaton diff lockers are electronically acuated

Yes, kinda, more electrically actuated with a switch, relay and solenoid
Much better than air that has a switch, relay, compressor, reservoir, air lines, filter

 

[DenisM]

Does that mean with all 3 difflocks engaged you might only need 2 Maxtrax in front of one wheel rather than 4 Maxtrax? ( 2x2 wheels or 1 for each wheel)
I've never owned or used Maxtrax (sheltered life I've led to now)

 

[DaveB]

Does that mean with all 3 difflocks engaged you might only need 2 Maxtrax in front of one wheel rather than 4 Maxtrax? ( 2x2 wheels or 1 for each wheel)
I've never owned or used Maxtrax (sheltered life I've led to now)

Maxtrax are best for sand, snow or mud.
Difflocks best for loose rocks, steep dirt/rocky tracks and also sand, snow or mud.
Air down and apply diff locks and you will go a lot further, easier and at a more controlled speed.
Which all adds up to less damage to the vehicle and the tracks.

 

[Wayneos]

Does that mean with all 3 difflocks engaged you might only need 2 Maxtrax in front of one wheel rather than 4 Maxtrax? ( 2x2 wheels or 1 for each wheel)
I've never owned or used Maxtrax (sheltered life I've led to now)

At the NSW drive day a few weeks back, I drove the Grenny up a steep slightly rutted hill (dry conditions) in 4 Lo and centre diff locked only AND with the tyres at highway pressure. Rear and front lockers were NOT engaged. Grenny walked up it without drama, no wheel scrabbling or spinning, effortless, almost boring.

I said to the IA dude that you would have to really be in the shit to have use the rear locker let alone both F & R! I wouldn't anticipate using maxtrax very often unless, like Dave said, you're traversing a lot of soft stuff.

 

[Tazzieman]

I said to the IA dude that you would have to really be in the shit to have use the rear locker let alone both F & R!

It will be interesting to test the capabilities on a steep rocky trail with a decent payload and washouts.
Thusfar no footage , but no doubt it will be asked to perform in public before too long.

 

[DaveB]

At the NSW drive day a few weeks back, I drove the Grenny up a steep slightly rutted hill (dry conditions) in 4 Lo and centre diff locked only AND with the tyres at highway pressure. Rear and front lockers were NOT engaged. Grenny walked up it without drama, no wheel scrabbling or spinning, effortless, almost boring.

I said to the IA dude that you would have to really be in the shit to have use the rear locker let alone both F & R! I wouldn't anticipate using maxtrax very often unless, like Dave said, you're traversing a lot of soft stuff.

We went through soft sand in Perth with road pressures and centre dif locked in high
Mt Tamborine was steep slippery stuff and a couple of shallow creek crossings
I put it in 4 L centre locked for some of it but my almost son in law did the whole thing in 4H centre locked right behind me.

 

[Bushguide]

Wishing I had any sort of Dif Lock

 

[Wayneos]

Wishing I had any sort of Dif Lock

Troubles getting out of the driveway again Les?

 

[James]

Hi all

Anybody know how sophisticated the traction control will be on the IG. I am not a hard core off roader so doubt I will need the locking diffs and would need to learn how to use them ? watching a few vids it seems that a locking centre diff and good modern traction control (which brakes the wheel without traction to be able to send power to the other wheel) is very effective now a days so wondering if people think the diffs will be worth the extra cost (trying to keep my spec manageable!) and will it be a must have for people if I ever need to sell it?
cheers paul

Hi Paul,
I think it is a great question, and I differ a bit from some replies you've had.
Firstly, I have 3 diff locks on my existing car, and I chose them for the grenadier. BUT, I don't think they are a no-brainer for everyone, and here's why I think that.

There are lots of uses for this car that will never need the additional diff locks. It is SERIOUSLY capable, even without. Yes, they really help, especially if you know when and how to use them, but loads of people will never do that. This includes people who principally tow, or on-road, or dirt road and fire trail, etc etc. Its worth mentioning that the real Land Rover defender was never available with F&R locks or traction control, and most never had them fitted after market like mine, yet this is the basis of the 4x4 legend. Same for Toyotas, that together with LR are the backbone of Australia and Africa/Middle East.

This forum is heavily biased to 'us', people who are early adopters, and heavily invested in missing something that the Grenadier speaks to, and more likely by far to have done remote or overloading envelope-pushing where this stuff gets you home easily. But, importantly, the more mature Grenadier market will be a lot wider than deeply engaged, if insightful geniuses like we forum members.

So, some possible buyers of your car might want them, many won't care. If they do want them, they'll probably want most of the trialmaster option list (def the added wiring, poss battery/air intake). That's a big add - if you are budget limited, my guess is that there will be plenty of buyers who have never engaged a diff lock in their lives.

A 'plain old' grenadier is still going to be a great vehicle, and as safe an 'investment' as a highly specified one.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Bushguide]

Troubles getting out of the driveway again Les?

Yea you would think I'd learn wouldn't you? Ruined all the garden in the process of getting out.

 

[grenadierboy]

Very summary James.

My old G Wagen had both front & rear, took it on some pretty rough roads and terrain and hardly ever used the rear locker let alone the front but, of course, like a winch it's "insurance" and they are more difficult to fit aftermarket.

 

[AWo]

Even if not necessary for keeping traction it is good practice to switch the centre diff lock on while driving on loose ground in Low gear mode (having high torque available).

The reason behind this are thin plates behind the diff gears. The diff gears will be pushed apart by the torque because they are helical gears. They press hard against these plates while spinning. That causes a high wear of them. By locking the center diff and let the tyres do the balancing, the helical gears do not spin what equals zero wear.

Cheers
AWo

 

[bemax]

Even if not necessary for keeping traction it is good practice to switch the centre diff lock on while driving on loose ground in Low gear mode (having high torque available).

The reason behind this are thin plates behind the diff gears. The diff gears will be pushed apart by the torque because they are helical gears. They press hard against these plates while spinning. That causes a high wear of them. By locking the center diff and let the tyres do the balancing, the helical gears do not spin what equals zero wear.

Cheers
AWo

Good to know! Thanks a lot for the technical insights!

 

[AWo]

In the end it has to be checked how this diff is build and working, but the concepts do not differ very much.

I would have preferred a lockable Torsen as the center diff. That is a fire-and-forget thing, robust, working silently 24x7 in the background and less parts (to none) which wear.

Cheers
AWo

 

[bemax]

In the end it has to be checked how this diff is build and working, but the concepts do not differ very much.

I would have preferred a lockable Torsen as the center diff. That is a fire-and-forget thing, robust, working silently 24x7 in the background and less parts (to none) which wear.

Cheers
AWo

I have got 75 % Torsen diffs as rear ant front locks in my Defender. It works really well. There are people who do not like them in the front, but I never had more problems with the steering than maybe a little input if I accelerate hard. On the other hand it’s an absolute no brainer in light to medium off-road driving. For the hard stuff an 100 %airlockrt might be best

 

[DCPU]

I would posit that any vehicle without locking diffs (or at least a limited slip diff) is not a true off-road vehicle.

That's very harsh.

 

[DCPU]

Yes, kinda, more electrically actuated with a switch, relay and solenoid
Much better than air that has a switch, relay, compressor, reservoir, air lines, filter

The Eaton e locker as an aftermarket product does seem to be entirely electrically operated, however Ineos seem to have implemented it into the Grenadier with a logic tree/functionality that is controlled by electronics and various parameters are set that govern the activating, enabling, initiating and the deactivating, disabling, disengaging or inhibiting from operation as a series of sub systems.