Power Steering Recall

Phud · Feb 2, 2024

stickshifter said:
The info on recalls is very easy to find. Here is a screen shot of the two U.S. recalls for the Grenadier, and below are two places where you can find recall info:

View attachment 7842156

Source #1: https://www.dealerrater.com/recalls/INEOS/Grenadier/

Source #2: https://www.cars.com/research/ineos-grenadier/recalls/

My point USA adjustments not recalls

AWo · Feb 2, 2024

Phud said:
My point USA adjustments not recalls

Sorry, but I can't follow you, I do not understand.

Please quote whatever I wrote and ask your question. maybe I can answer then.

AWo

AZGrenadier · Feb 2, 2024

I get a "power steering error" every other time starting up. I haven't noticed anything while driving other than the warning light. Overall I am not too worried about it right now as it doesn't come on every time and there really isn't any rhyme or reason to when it does.

Xrford · Feb 2, 2024

I am not sure why people equate recall with “bad”. I see it as the OEM admitting there is an issue and committing to rectify it at their cost. I wish all known issues were dealt with in a similar manner, but unfortunately if the fault is not considered a safety issue they get dealt with as “Service bulletins“ where you as the consumer have to complain about the problem before they will admit to knowing about it and fixing it. Recalls are proactive and “Service bulletins” are reactive. Plus if I have a problem covered by a “Service bulletin“ outside of warranty the cost to fix it lands on me, where recalls the cost is born by the OEM. Ultimately I wish there were no issues at all, but In reality I know that will never happen, so in that case I would prefer all faults/issues be dealt in a similar manner as recalls, In a proactive manner.

stickshifter · Feb 2, 2024

Xrford said:
I am not sure why people equate recall with “bad”. I see it as the OEM admitting there is an issue and committing to rectify it at their cost. I wish all known issues were dealt with in a similar manner, but unfortunately if the fault is not considered a safety issue they get dealt with as “Service bulletins“ where you as the consumer have to complain about the problem before they will admit to knowing about it and fixing it. Recalls are proactive and “Service bulletins” are reactive. Plus if I have a problem covered by a “Service bulletin“ outside of warranty the cost to fix it lands on me, where recalls the cost is born by the OEM. Ultimately I wish there were no issues at all, but In reality I know that will never happen, so in that case I would prefer all faults/issues be dealt in a similar manner as recalls, In a proactive manner.

Exactly right. Recalls are transparent, and a recall is much better than when a company ignores a problem that many owners are experiencing. Recalls also must be communicated to owners clearly and promptly; mine have always come via post and email.

It is good and right for owners to share information about recalls with other owners, just in case they somehow missed the messaging.

I am not sure why some folks seem to be getting defensive around the discussion of the two Ineos recalls. No one is suggesting that the vehicle is crap. No one is suggesting that someone who bought a Grenadier made a mistake. All manufacturers have recalls.

Even Big Wheel had a recall (but not, I think, for the power steering).

alvan · Feb 2, 2024

The most recent government recall bulletin in Italy has 1156 pages and also involves vehicles such as the Porsche 918 or 911 GT3 and not only for simple windshield wiper defects but, for example, for suspension arms. Getting scandalized by some call from the Grenadier seems out of place to me...

AZGrenadier · Feb 2, 2024

It would be awfully naive to think that an Ineos Grenadier, a car company that didn't exist 5 years ago and a model that has only been on the road for roughly a year, wouldn't have any recalls. Every manufacturer has recalls including the companies that started the automotive industry a hundred years ago. If they don't have everything dialed yet, why would a 5yo company.

AWo · Feb 2, 2024

stickshifter said:
Exactly right. Recalls are transparent, and a recall is much better than when a company ignores a problem that many owners are experiencing. Recalls also must be communicated to owners clearly and promptly; mine have always come via post and email.

It is good and right for owners to share information about recalls with other owners, just in case they somehow missed the messaging.

I am not sure why some folks seem to be getting defensive around the discussion of the two Ineos recalls. No one is suggesting that the vehicle is crap. No one is suggesting that someone who bought a Grenadier made a mistake. All manufacturers have recalls.

Even Big Wheel had a recall (but not, I think, for the power steering).

View attachment 7842252

I do not fully agree. There was a recall from Land Rover, forced in Germany by the KBA, because the front axle could crack at the weld seam which holds the complete steering knuckle housing and wheel so you could loose your front wheel and a part of the axle at any time and speed. I saw one car around 2014 where it broke while driving at low speed on a private road and one where the crack has started. It was noticed just by very few oil leaking (picture).

It is the refresh of a many years old recall of just a specific VIN range. Now all units have been called in. Our car was in the workshop today and we have to proof that to the German KBA with a letter from the workshop.

The reason was that Land Rover switched the type of welding to one which doesn't cope with the stress.

So I should be happy about that Land Rover calls the cars in, on their cost, to mitigate a mistake they're responsible for which could cause the dead of people, my family and others just because someone thought it is ok to change the welding which has proven to work and withstand every stress for decades?

No. It is the minimum self-evident thing they could do and I do not say "Thank you".

There are recalls where one might find the root cause is acceptible. But there are recalls which show that there was poor engineering or an overzealous controller or bad or not educated workers or something similar. We're not talking about new technology or pioneering work where there is no experience or knowledge, yet.

AWo

stickshifter · Feb 2, 2024

AWo said:
I do not fully agree. There was a recall from Land Rover, forced in Germany by the KBA, because the front axle could crack at the weld seam which holds the complete steering knuckle housing and wheel so you could loose your front wheel and a part of the axle at any time and speed. I saw one car around 2014 where it broke while driving at low speed on a private road and one where the crack has started. It was noticed just by very few oil leaking (picture).

View attachment 7842272

It is the refresh of a many years old recall of just a specific VIN range. Now all units have been called in. Our car was in the workshop today and we have to proof that to the German KBA with a letter from the workshop.

The reason was that Land Rover switched the type of welding to one which doesn't cope with the stress.

So I should be happy about that Land Rover calls the cars in, on their cost, to mitigate a mistake they're responsible for which could cause the dead of people, my family and others just because someone thought it is ok to change the welding which has proven to work and withstand every stress for decades?

No. It is the minimum self-evident thing they could do and I do not say "Thank you".

There are recalls where one might find the root cause is acceptible. But there are recalls which show that there was poor engineering or an overzealous controller or bad or not educated workers or something similar. We're not talking about new technology or pioneering work where there is no experience or knowledge, yet.

AWo

I didn't say that recalls were "good" - I said "a recall is much better than when a company ignores a problem". Big difference.

AWo · Feb 2, 2024

stickshifter said:
I didn't say that recalls were "good" - I said "a recall is much better than when a company ignores a problem". Big difference.

I didn't say "I don't agree" - I said "I do not fully agree".
Small difference. And the small difference between us is, that I expect that any car manufacturer does its job right in every safety aspect before the car get's delivered. I know that is not the case in reality, but it is also never an acceptible excuse for me, that this could and does happen with every manufacturer.

AWo

AngusMacG · Feb 3, 2024

AWo said:
I didn't say "I don't agree" - I said "I do not fully agree".
Small difference. And the small difference between us is, that I expect that any car manufacturer does its job right in every safety aspect before the car get's delivered. I know that is not the case in reality, but it is also never an acceptible excuse for me, that this could and does happen with every manufacturer.

AWo

IMO, All of your comments on this thread seem to insinuate that INEOS’ recall is bad for the brand and makes the vehicle somehow unworthy/unreliable whether it is voluntary or not. Several of us demonstrated that recalls happen to seemingly every brand (new and established) yet you continue to push back. I would assume that every vehicle you own AND have owned have never had any recall for anything.

I attached a screenshot of recalls on the Land Rover Defender. Not sure what year or specific model you drive but there are 9 pages of recalls From the US Highway & Traffic Safety Administration.

AWo · Feb 3, 2024

I do not compare Ineos to Land Rover recalls. Read my post and you read about a recall for the Defender because this issue could have had catastrophic consequences, so I do not defend Land Rover nor did I say Ineos is worse.

You did not get my point and there is no need to defend Ineos or any brand. My statement is that safety related recalls always mean, independent of the brand, that someone did a poor job.

To answer your question: https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/whats-everyone-driving.12410294/post-1333155798

AWo

Tazzieman · Feb 3, 2024

AWo said:
safety related recalls always mean, independent of the brand, that someone did a poor job.

Well said.

Defenderlover · Feb 3, 2024

AngusMacG said:
IMO, All of your comments on this thread seem to insinuate that INEOS’ recall is bad for the brand and makes the vehicle somehow unworthy/unreliable whether it is voluntary or not. Several of us demonstrated that recalls happen to seemingly every brand (new and established) yet you continue to push back. I would assume that every vehicle you own AND have owned have never had any recall for anything.

I attached a screenshot of recalls on the Land Rover Defender. Not sure what year or specific model you drive but there are 9 pages of recalls From the US Highway & Traffic Safety Administration.

Hi Angus, thanks for the screenshot! To me it shows clearly an awful lot of problems with the so called New Defender, have a look. what did Land Rover do to get so many problems with the new Defender?
For everybody:
To me the totally new Grenadier has only few, mostly minor problems. They will be solved. I have to stress it again: No workshop all over the world has(much) experience with the Grenadier!! They start at zero. When they have repaired many dozens, they will have some experience. It takes normally several years for every workshop to gain enough experience to know what is wrong and how to repair it!
The same with spare parts: it takes a lot of time to produce enough spare parts and to distribute them all over the world.

When you buy such a totally new car from a totally new car maker and no workshop all over the world has experience with that car, you can not expect, there are only some minor problems!! It will take several years before most/severe problems are solved!

But this car is such an outstanding concept, is such an outstanding 4x4 with such an outstanding quality, that it is worth to endure all these problems! There is and will be no comparable 4x4 on the Market! Even the price is excellent when you compare it to the G-wagon and the quality of most parts is much better. Of course the G-wagon has more bling bling.
Please don`t forget: The Grenadier is not made to use it as a normal SUV. It`s made for the rough roads, pistes and should not be misused for rock crawling.
Greetings Hans!

don't ignore warning ligh · Feb 15, 2024

reauxheaux said:
Can you give any detail? What happened? Who told you not to worry? What failed? Where?

We had warning lights as so many others and were told the system updates would fix this.
Unfortunately this meant that when things did go wrong, Power steering failure, reduced braking capability and lots of other lights and noises which may (or may

DenisM said:
The 60 US Grenadiers were recalled due to an apparent problem with a ball joint fitting. I don't see how that would activate a warning light. I'm sorry to hear about your 'near catastrophic' failure.. was it steering pump related or something which a sensor might detect? By way of comparison Mercedes Benz topped the list according to a recent mainstream press report in that they (MB) had 55 recalls in Australia last year...

I don't know either!
There were a lot of warning lights going on but of those two related to our actual experience. The power steering failed, and also the brakes did not work which did correspond with a red light regarding reduced braking capability.
car was taken away early September 2023 and as of February 2024 the vehicle has not been fixed as has not been driven/moved since then . We have not been told that a 'top engineer ' had looked at it but Ineos were not forthcoming with any information and have been totally obstructive and an an absolute nightmare to deal with. I'm sorry I can't tell you what exactly is wrong , Ineos wouldn't share the diagnostic codes and will not give us information that was formally requested.
I absolutely loved the car and hope that things will improve . For me no car is worth the abominable service , months of battling for any kind of response and having to resort to taking a legal route.
Thanks for your message!

don't ignore warning ligh · Feb 15, 2024

AZGrenadier said:
It would be awfully naive to think that an Ineos Grenadier, a car company that didn't exist 5 years ago and a model that has only been on the road for roughly a year, wouldn't have any recalls. Every manufacturer has recalls including the companies that started the automotive industry a hundred years ago. If they don't have everything dialed yet, why would a 5yo company.

I think what I was actually 'awfully naive' of was in expecting the process of a serious failure in a new vehicle to be dealt with .
Ineos have been obstructive and impossible to deal with.
They ignore customers and in our case this went on for months (they have had our car since September2023) Having to resort to taking legal advice and contacting Lyn Calder on LinkedIn. The car had not been fixed or even moved for months and months and it has been a journey of obstruction from the company.
So yes, I'm naive that I expected a company who supplied a dangerous and sub standard product to communicate !
This is my experience in the UK .
I know that there are many others who have also been victims of the abysmal customer service here in the UK .
A company is only as good as what happens when things go wrong ... The concept was fantastic but the dream soon became a horrible nightmare.

reauxheaux · Feb 15, 2024

don't ignore warning ligh said:
We had warning lights as so many others and were told the system updates would fix this.
Unfortunately this meant that when things did go wrong, Power steering failure, reduced braking capability and lots of other lights and noises which may (or may

I don't know either!
There were a lot of warning lights going on but of those two related to our actual experience. The power steering failed, and also the brakes did not work which did correspond with a red light regarding reduced braking capability.
car was taken away early September 2023 and as of February 2024 the vehicle has not been fixed as has not been driven/moved since then . We have not been told that a 'top engineer ' had looked at it but Ineos were not forthcoming with any information and have been totally obstructive and an an absolute nightmare to deal with. I'm sorry I can't tell you what exactly is wrong , Ineos wouldn't share the diagnostic codes and will not give us information that was formally requested.
I absolutely loved the car and hope that things will improve . For me no car is worth the abominable service , months of battling for any kind of response and having to resort to taking a legal route.
Thanks for your message!

What warning lights though? Was it some sort of steering warning or what? I know some lights were ok, but hadn't heard of this.

Very frustrating that Ineos hasn't been helpful. Their higher ups are pretty accessible via Linkdn, but I would imagine now that you have involved a legal battle they might be hesitant to reply.

dreamalaska · Mar 22, 2024

don't ignore warning ligh said:
I think what I was actually 'awfully naive' of was in expecting the process of a serious failure in a new vehicle to be dealt with .
Ineos have been obstructive and impossible to deal with.
They ignore customers and in our case this went on for months (they have had our car since September2023) Having to resort to taking legal advice and contacting Lyn Calder on LinkedIn. The car had not been fixed or even moved for months and months and it has been a journey of obstruction from the company.
So yes, I'm naive that I expected a company who supplied a dangerous and sub standard product to communicate !
This is my experience in the UK .
I know that there are many others who have also been victims of the abysmal customer service here in the UK .
A company is only as good as what happens when things go wrong ... The concept was fantastic but the dream soon became a horrible nightmare.

Any updates on your nightmare?

AZGrenadier · Mar 22, 2024

I was driving down the road a couple days ago not really paying attention. I passed a cop sitting on the side. When I looked down I was going a little over 90 (mph not kph). For anyone that says these are either underpowered or that the steering is unsafe hasn't driven them enough. This definitely isn't meant to discount anyones specific problems but as a who I am pretty impressed.

Mountain4x4 · Mar 24, 2024

My modern experience is there is resistance to ANY warranty work. I even sued Nissan because the rear diff on my 2005 Xterra ( yes a HUGE pos I know) blew up after a few thousand miles with huge diff design flaws. But some how it was my fault, never mind as we went through the process they changed out the entire rear carrier from one spider to 4. Then I disconnected and re-routed the transmission cooling system as it would quickly leak into the radiator and destroy the transmission with in a few thousand miles, and for years Nissan buried there head and would not pay for failures. One after another forum members would be on the hook for a new transmission when they argued about modifying a brand new SUV in the forums, it was quite sad. For my 2018 Ram they literally would fix nothing and I naively purchased an extended warranty, and yep, covered nothing, even with a known 60K mile transmission like some stupid CVT or something....But when there are recalls....they USUALLY fix those with out any questions asked! Recently Ford looked for a reason to not warranty a back up camera recall due to damage, but after a drive back over and having the service advisor look at the camera and see there was no damage it was fixed under recall. So I appreciate seeing recalls, as it will take less energy to approve the repair under warranty,

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