Power steering failure

[Eric]

Well done mate, don't forget to post us stay at homes a few "adventure vids"

On an absolutely completely separate issue where did you find the " live long and prosper" emoji, I've been looking for ages for it.

 

[PBD]

On an absolutely completely separate issue where did you find the " live long and prosper" emoji, I've been looking for ages for it.

It is in the emoji box on my IPad Pro. I bet Stu or one of the wizards can add it on our emoji list.

 

[Tazzieman]

Excellent result!
And a bonus is that you have a brand new gateway control module!
Do you get to keep the old one?

 

[TD5-90]

Interesting.
Electric motors do tend to work, or not, rather than work sometimes and fix themselves it's probably a tad more complex than just a pump ...
I'm glad they have identified the issue anyway and that should be an easy/quick fix.

Today, it's likely that the electric motor is an EC (Electronically Commutated) motor, with the electronics (power electronics & microprocessor) incorporated in the motor. These electronics have really uncomfortable operating conditions in such a motor.

Unfortunately, absolutely nothing at all is simple in 2023...

 

[Miki]

Today, it's likely that the electric motor is an EC (Electronically Commutated) motor, with the electronics (power electronics & microprocessor) incorporated in the motor. These electronics have really uncomfortable operating conditions in such a motor.

Unfortunately, absolutely nothing at all is simple in 2023...

I agree with that.
There is a huge drive to reduce emissions and this leads the designers to remove any powerdrain on the engine, ie fitting electric pumps instead of a belt driven unit.
The problem is this introduces complications and complexity into what really should be a simple thing.

it has also led to the development of an ECU controlled alternator (as fitted to the Grenny) which then leads to issues charging 2 batteries which requires intelligent DC-DC charging systems and again introduces complexity into what really should be a simple thing. Especially after we were told it would be (simple, easily maintained etc etc).

 

[anand]

I agree with that.
There is a huge drive to reduce emissions and this leads the designers to remove any powerdrain on the engine, ie fitting electric pumps instead of a belt driven unit.
The problem is this introduces complications and complexity into what really should be a simple thing.

it has also led to the development of an ECU controlled alternator (as fitted to the Grenny) which then leads to issues charging 2 batteries which requires intelligent DC-DC charging systems and again introduces complexity into what really should be a simple thing. Especially after we were told it would be (simple, easily maintained etc etc).

Unfortunately, it is 2023, emissions requirements are something no one can get around.

Now, in terms of simplicity, it has something to the order of 1/3 the amount of control modules compared to a similar vehicle from another manufacturer, and pretty much everything can be easily disassembled and reassembled

 

[Miki]

Now, in terms of simplicity, it has something to the order of 1/3 the amount of control modules compared to a similar vehicle from another manufacturer, and pretty much everything can be easily disassembled and reassembled

I agree, JLR have missed their place and 'opened the stable door' out of which the Grenny has driven.
Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your view point) they have been walking aimlessly around a field with a box on their shoulders for some time now.

 

[AnD3rew]

Interesting.
Electric motors do tend to work, or not, rather than work sometimes and fix themselves it's probably a tad more complex than just a pump ...
I'm glad they have identified the issue anyway and that should be an easy/quick fix.

The motors do, but it could be as simple as a poor solder on an electrical connection or circuit board. And then something like temperature or angle of the vehicle etc could make it work intermittently

 

[Miki]

The motors do, but it could be as simple as a poor solder on an electrical connection or circuit board.

Yes, @TD5-90 explained that a few posts ago ... ""it's likely that the electric motor is an EC (Electronically Commutated) motor, with the electronics (power electronics & microprocessor) incorporated in the motor""

 

[IG_LA]

Scary reading all these threads about these failures. Might just cancel my order, not worth the stress. Imagine being stuck in the Sahara desert on this! Yikes

 

[DenisM]

Scary reading all these threads about these failures. Might just cancel my order, not worth the stress. Imagine being stuck in the Sahara desert on this! Yikes

Yep, it's the first ever recorded power steering failure in all the world... I was almost tempted not to take scheduled delivery of mine this afternoon. Then I thought why stress worrying about hypotheticals? I'll put off the Sahara and explore the Gibson desert instead... nothing breaks down there...

 

[Tazzieman]

Why stress worrying about hypotheticals?

Yes , it get quite hot in the Sahara , and you might get a split in your water tank.

 

[IG_LA]

Yes , it get quite hot in the Sahara , and you might get a split in your water tank.

Or get a power steering issue, or transmission failure, or or or or or or or!

Don't get me wrong. We're all here because we're all obsessed about it! I'm obsessed with this car already and I have yet to own it, but these failures are unacceptable for a 2023 and $71K vehicle. Do I roll the dice or read these testaments about a slew of gremlins?

 

[Nocrays]

Or get a power steering issue, or transmission failure, or or or or or or or!

Don't get me wrong. We're all here because we're all obsessed about it! I'm obsessed with this car already and I have yet to own it, but these failures are unacceptable for a 2023 and $71K vehicle. Do I roll the dice or read these testaments about a slew of gremlins?

You should change your mind and buy a Land Rover instead

 

[Tazzieman]

Do I roll the dice or read these testaments about a slew of gremlins?

Are you afraid of heights or big surf?
The men amongst us aren't

 

[AnD3rew]

Yes,

Yes, @TD5-90 explained that a few posts ago ... ""it's likely that the electric motor is an EC (Electronically Commutated) motor, with the electronics (power electronics & microprocessor) incorporated in the motor""

Absolutely, but could also be just a poor canl

Or get a power steering issue, or transmission failure, or or or or or or or!

Don't get me wrong. We're all here because we're all obsessed about it! I'm obsessed with this car already and I have yet to own it, but these failures are unacceptable for a 2023 and $71K vehicle. Do I roll the dice or read these testaments about a slew of gremlins?

Go to any car forum and you will find people sharing their issues and all of them have failures, there are repeated limp home issues with LC300 from at least 3 issues. There are overheating issues, there have been transmission issues with them. Go to the New Defender forums so many issues, from trim flying off regularly to total engine failures. The one consistent thing with the Grenadier that really needed to have been addressed is the software glitches, but even that is not generally stopping anyone from going about their business. I’m not trying to excuse INEOS or let them off the hook, clearly there is stuff to sort out, but it needs to be kept in context

 

[Tazzieman]

Go to any car forum and you will find people sharing their issues and all of them have failures, there are repeated limp home issues with LC300 from at least 3 issues. There are overheating issues, there have been transmission issues with them. Go to the New Defender forums so many issues, from trim flying off regularly to total engine failures. The one consistent thing with the Grenadier that really needed to have been addressed is the software glitches, but even that is not generally stopping anyone from going about their business. I’m not trying to excuse INEOS or let them off the hook, clearly there is stuff to sort out, but it needs to be kept in context

I'm going straight to the New Defender forum, to gloat!

 

[MilesD]

I'm going straight to the New Defender forum, to gloat!

Having done 1000 mls or so, a technical/electrical question if I may.

I’m having the usual panoply of warnings popping up on the touch screen, Orange to Red (pdc failure/power steering failure, transmission failure etc etc), but the failures are not replicated on the screen in front of the steering wheel.
Does anyone know if the monitoring system is built such that the software that indicates warning of failures on the touchscreen console, is designed to read and presents data differently from the system which displays on the smaller warning screen. Ie are they seperate software monitoring systems, or are there additional monitoring sensors to support the readout on the wee screen?

The red warnings are a little disconcerting when they pop up on the touchscreen, but all disappear pretty quickly (up to a few minutes), and the drive isn’t affected.

This of course is the polar opposite of my experience of ‘new’ landrover systems, where the cylinder linings wore out leading to compression loss and catastrophic failure of a twin turbo (amongst other things), preceded by over a year of ‘rattling’ yet not a single warning light came on in 3 years, and no comment from the garage at each service

 

[Tazzieman]

Full points for use of the word "panoply". Well done that man!

 

[Cheshire cat]

Having done 1000 mls or so, a technical/electrical question if I may.

I’m having the usual panoply of warnings popping up on the touch screen, Orange to Red (pdc failure/power steering failure, transmission failure etc etc), but the failures are not replicated on the screen in front of the steering wheel.
Does anyone know if the monitoring system is built such that the software that indicates warning of failures on the touchscreen console, is designed to read and presents data differently from the system which displays on the smaller warning screen. Ie are they seperate software monitoring systems, or are there additional monitoring sensors to support the readout on the wee screen?

The red warnings are a little disconcerting when they pop up on the touchscreen, but all disappear pretty quickly (up to a few minutes), and the drive isn’t affected.

This of course is the polar opposite of my experience of ‘new’ landrover systems, where the cylinder linings wore out leading to compression loss and catastrophic failure of a twin turbo (amongst other things), preceded by over a year of ‘rattling’ yet not a single warning light came on in 3 years, and no comment from the garage at each service

Was wondering exactly the same thing Miles. Only difference for me is the warning on the touch screen do not disconcert me in any way. Thanks mainly to assurances from Ineos and from peoples experience on here.