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Is it electric?

Krabby

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Mountain4x4 said:
Not at all practical here are some reasons;

1. No true 4wd, but AWD gimics
2. No true locking diffs
.
Click to expand...
Actually a 4-motor EV, with each wheel having its own unit, will be the truest form of 4wd possible. Each wheel will have its own drive and can do whatever is needed regardless of what the others are doing - including rotating in the opposite direction!
 
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Krabby said:
Well - that's how the very first LR was made. And... READ ME
Click to expand...
Spencer Wilks, then the managing director of the Rover Car Company, owned the 40,000-acre Laggan Estate on Islay. He and his brother Maurice adapted a chassis and built a Rover around it in 1947.
Roger Crathorne, known as “Mr Land Rover” and author of Born in Lode Lane, the official history of the Land Rover, explained: “Spencer Wilks brought the Rover (to Islay) and had the suspension raised so it could negotiate the rutted tracks. When his gamekeeper saw it he said ‘this must be a Land Rover’.”
That gamekeeper was Ian Fraser whose son Duncan recently recounted the family story: “My father was supposed to have said ‘oh aye, a real Land Rover, a great Land Rover.’”
The name stuck. Renowned for its rugged terrain and vast landscapes, Islay became the unofficial proving ground for production Land Rovers throughout the late 40s as the Wilkes brothers continued to use the island to secretly put the Series 1 Land Rover through its paces in the build up to production.
The family are still here in the form of the Wills family, owners and founders of Kilchoman Distillery.
 
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Mountain4x4

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Krabby said:
Actually a 4-motor EV, with each wheel having its own unit, will be the truest form of 4wd possible. Each wheel will have its own drive and can do whatever is needed regardless of what the others are doing - including rotating in the opposite direction!
Click to expand...

But no one has demonstrated that concept yet. And I cannot remember right off hand exactly why, but I saw someone give good reasons not long ago. It may simply be the struggle to build a drivetrain to handle the stress fully locked up axles and differentials with 1k pounds of torque. Think Portal Unimog axles. Even the fake locker ones turn off VERY quickly to prevent damage. Some street cars even have the fake locker mode, and it also turns off at any sign of needing it. That is crazy, it gets tough and it turns off! VW may have been the first to pioneer that. Will anyone be able to design something like that? Maybe, but it will take lighter batteries, and 100% new architecture and detuning of the Torque ratings which have become silly. Would I take 400HP on the Grenadier? Sure. 800HP with a 1000lbs of torque? Yikes...
 
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Mountain4x4 said:
But no one has demonstrated that concept yet. And I cannot remember right off hand exactly why, but I saw someone give good reasons not long ago. It may simply be the struggle to build a drivetrain to handle the stress fully locked up axles and differentials with 1k pounds of torque. Think Portal Unimog axles. Even the fake locker ones turn off VERY quickly to prevent damage. Some street cars even have the fake locker mode, and it also turns off at any sign of needing it. That is crazy, it gets tough and it turns off! VW may have been the first to pioneer that. Will anyone be able to design something like that? Maybe, but it will take lighter batteries, and 100% new architecture and detuning of the Torque ratings which have become silly. Would I take 400HP on the Grenadier? Sure. 800HP with a 1000lbs of torque? Yikes...
Click to expand...
There aren't old-school diffs and traditional axles to bind up - it's a true independant setup and Rivian uses it (check out the MT Writeup).

From that, "...The rivian r1t, on the other hand, is powered by four electric motors—one inboard motor for each wheel—that combine to produce 835 hp and 908 lb-ft of torque. With electric motors making peak torque at 0 rpm (versus at 4,800 rpm for the Ram's technically-not-a-Hellcat V-8), each motor drives each wheel directly through what's effectively a one-speed automatic. This negates the need for a typical four-wheel-drive system..."

I'm not saying there aren't tons of issues with EV off-roaders, but in terms of actual "drive" using four wheels, with each wheel having its own drive and articulation, it seems hard to beat.
 
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AZGrenadier

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I don’t think I have shown it to anyone who HASNT asked if it is electric. I really don’t understand why someone would think there is an electric brick. Maybe because Stompers took a battery 40 years ago?
 
Krabby

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AZGrenadier said:
I don’t think I have shown it to anyone who HASNT asked if it is electric. I really don’t understand why someone would think there is an electric brick. Maybe because Stompers took a battery 40 years ago?
Click to expand...
Batteries included!
IMG_0777.jpeg
 
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If Ineos pulls it off, they will be the first. But keep in mind that is 149 miles of usable range on the road. You do not go below 20% generally and charge to 80%. How impractical is that? Yes, you could go off road, but off road range might be 25-50 miles! ( thats the average we have seen in real world testing) So no overlanding, no trail riding...what an off road park for a couple of hours? And for commuting why would you not just get a Tesla? Not to mention Teslas are becoming dirt cheap, especially used as they are dumped in mass. I watched a TFL video yesterday, and while not as kiss ass as many automotive journalists....I mean, they have a lifetime Subaru ban after showing how bad they are. ( and even after years of kissing ass to make up) They confessed just how horrific the Rivian was off-road and could never get any traction at all. Thought is was a stark confession from them. The Hummer, well they never could keep it running long enough and just gave up. Maybe Ineos and someone else will make a 200,000.00 rig for off road that is capable. But will it be practical?
 
anand

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Mountain4x4 said:
If Ineos pulls it off, they will be the first. But keep in mind that is 149 miles of usable range on the road. You do not go below 20% generally and charge to 80%. How impractical is that? Yes, you could go off road, but off road range might be 25-50 miles! ( thats the average we have seen in real world testing) So no overlanding, no trail riding...what an off road park for a couple of hours? And for commuting why would you not just get a Tesla? Not to mention Teslas are becoming dirt cheap, especially used as they are dumped in mass. I watched a TFL video yesterday, and while not as kiss ass as many automotive journalists....I mean, they have a lifetime Subaru ban after showing how bad they are. ( and even after years of kissing ass to make up) They confessed just how horrific the Rivian was off-road and could never get any traction at all. Thought is was a stark confession from them. The Hummer, well they never could keep it running long enough and just gave up. Maybe Ineos and someone else will make a 200,000.00 rig for off road that is capable. But will it be practical?
Click to expand...
If TFL is your trusted source for off road journalism (or journalism in general), then I'd suggest reevaluating the options that exist in the world... They are excellent for hyped drama, being half informed, and jumping on the latest trends, however.

Going below 20% or above 80% in charge is purely a recommendation, I would say very few EV owners actually follow those constraints. Along the same lines you shouldn't go below 1/4 tank of fuel on an ICE vehicle, but the vast majority do.

Have you spent much time off road with a R1T or R1S (or Subarus for that matter)? We have had a number of customers with them and definitely put them through their paces, one of our instructors also competed in one at the Rebelle Rally this past year. Sure they have shortcomings (we had a customer obliterate a tie rod in an early one), but beyond that they are remarkably capable vehicles. of course, they don't fit every use case or need; but then again, nothing fits every requirement perfectly.

For what it's worth, other than some steep stream crossings and a log obstacle on our NC property, we have been quite impressed with modern Subarus as well. We have a customer who has done a number of our classes with a newer Forester Wilderness, only modification done to it is the addition of a few skids, who can successfully navigate not only our obstacle course, but our perimeter trail network as well. For anyone who attended the NC PTO2 location, this means pretty much everything you drove and more technical terrain. We were impressed enough with it that we added an older Outback to our fleet to expand the horizon of customers we can cater to. I digress, this thread is about the Grenadier (not) being an EV....
 
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While for my uses a purely electric vehicle doesn't make much sense we certainly need people to jump on the bandwagon just for the increased development of battery tech and charging. I read in the news today of new solar breakthroughs that are supposed to be 1000x more efficient. Who knows if it is true, but if people aren't buying solar the development would cease. Solid state battery technology wouldn't continue at the same rate either if EV suddenly died. Currently I wouldn't buy an EV for anything other than in town commuting. Unfortunately my usual day doesn't include a lot of in town commuting. Right now I think hybrid is really the way to go. Smaller batteries that you can tuck up out of the way., less added weight, better performance than Gas alone and better efficiency. I like the new Ram approach with a small gas engine to act as a generator to power the electric motors. This is definitely tried and true in locomotives. If we had a small gas power plant that charged some small solid state batteries powering 4 electric motors and had the hood and roof covered in solar that is 1000x as efficient. That might work. Oh yeah, and make it fit 37s with a 60 inch fording depth and only cost 50k with a 20k tax rebate.
 
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The Ram approach is fantastic. But like Ford, Ram recognized that EVs are impractical off-road and do not appear to be making an off-road version. I guess the question is, would lugging around thousands of pounds of batteries make any sense for an off-roader? For the Ram street truck? Sure, you can commute all week on electric, head out of town for the weekend and use your V6 for a road trip AND be able to tow. Then there is the cost, reliability for 2 systems, no environmental pay off....
 
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Mountain4x4 said:
Not at all practical here are some reasons;

1. No true 4wd, but AWD gimics
2. No true locking diffs
3. All plastic, touch one rock and you might have 20K in damage
4. tires, not going to have any, 33s lol
5. Too heavy, constricts climbing ability. ( even happens on the PW)
6. Absolutely no way to keep from breaking stuff. The Rivian snaps like a twig off road. And the problem is, even if you wanted it to be good off road, with that weight and the current electric architectures its not possible to engineer the vehicle to survive. Also imagine dealing with that torque!!
7. O suspension travel
8. No ability to upgrade. Are you going to add a winch, steel bumpers, sliders, armor
9. Any dent to the battery shield is a total loss. You spend the entire day scraping over rocks!
10. How exactly do you charge those giant batteries overlanding?

I could add tons more, but that is a start.
Click to expand...
Not belonging to capability - but the Rivian looks ugly to me - one of the worst optical designs - ever seen. (just my personal opinion)
10 (supplemental ) - exactly so - lets go somewhere in Africa, chile or elsewhere.. charging the vehicle from what? Solar, Wind, - and how many days until batteries are recharged? Range - is anyway a topic. Okay - go to Alaska or Nordic countries - where you go quite down the -5F or pass down -20F area
No battery capability.. Lots of consumers.
11. (in supplemet to your position 3 & 9 . any proper and real offroader must be robust and in particular simple to be repaired. This is mostly electric electronic and plastic How can this vehicle be fixed in the middle of nowhere?
12 / 8 customizing a vehicle to requirements..

To summarize this up.
The Rivian may be designed to go "Off the Road" in a controlled "off road area" such as an off road park to have some fun for an afternoon out.
But that is not the true definition and meaning for an utility 4WD that is meant for expedition and exploration capability in uncertain and remote areas, what is an "overland" -vehicle. - So Rivian may have some off the road capability - but for sure not an Overlander.
 
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Electric may have its applications but not in this arena.

It’s an alternative but it’s not better for the environment or a replacement for fossil fuels…and even if it was there isn’t enough infrastructure to support it.
 
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anand said:
If TFL is your trusted source for off road journalism (or journalism in general), then I'd suggest reevaluating the options that exist in the world... They are excellent for hyped drama, being half informed, and jumping on the latest trends, however.
Click to expand...
I resemble that remark! 🤣
 
Krabby

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Another EV using 4-motors. Pretty interesting stuff. EQG

The little film/commercial is cool. Well worth a minute and a half of your time.
 
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