Thoughts on future changes to the IG platform

Rubicon Maybe · Nov 23, 2023

As the IG evolves, one future upgrade/change there are two changes I would like to see considered. The first, and easier of the two, would be to make it possible to remove the doors as can be done on Jeeps and Broncos. The second, would require a significant change, would be the usage of aluminum for the body and doors. That might reduce the weight of the vehicle by a significant amount.

I would love to be able to also put 35inch tires under it to increase ground clearance. But think that would also require a significant change to the drivetrain and under carriage.

anand · Nov 23, 2023

The doors are aluminum.... all the "moving" body panels are.

Additionally, the doors are not easy to remove from what I've been told

35s will fit with a suspension lift, 37s have already been done in Iceland

Rubicon Maybe · Nov 23, 2023

Interesting. All the literature I have received has stated galvanized steel. Glad to read that aluminum is used on the doors/hood. But why not just extend that to the rest of the body?

A suspension lift by itself is seldom sufficient when installing larger tires. The stress on components goes up significantly. The angles of the drivetrain change and have to be accounted for. The ball joints of the front axle wear significantly faster if not engineered for the larger tires, brake systems may have to be exchanged to handle the greater rotational mass, etc, etc.

But yes, I have seen Jeeps that just threw larger tires on and drove off. But problems, often significant, occur sooner or later if the needed changes to accept the larger tires are not accounted for. So are you saying that this has already been done to the IG?

NQ94 · Nov 23, 2023

Good question. It would be good to see the Quartermaster ute/pick up available with a full floating rear axle, a payload of 1000-1200kg, a cab chassis version, factory option of more fuel capacity, 33" tyres and workshop manuals.
These options would make the Quartermaster better suited for an outback tourer and work vehicle straight from the agent.

moosetown · Nov 23, 2023

The Grenadier should be able to run 35s with a basic lift kit, once it exists. The components appear to be plenty strong enough.

TheDocAUS · Nov 23, 2023

Modify the NATO plug circuit so it can be used to charge caravans/trailers/devices, not just the winch. The current setup is not towing friendly.

Maybe even have a switch to reduce the max amperage on the circuit when towing, you do not need 350 amps when towing.

James · Nov 23, 2023

Rubicon Maybe said:
As the IG evolves, one future upgrade/change there are two changes I would like to see considered. The first, and easier of the two, would be to make it possible to remove the doors as can be done on Jeeps and Broncos. The second, would require a significant change, would be the usage of aluminum for the body and doors. That might reduce the weight of the vehicle by a significant amount.

I would love to be able to also put 35inch tires under it to increase ground clearance. But think that would also require a significant change to the drivetrain and under carriage.

Aluminium for the rest of the body would not help as much as you might think. It is typically up to 30% lighter than steel. That’s after you have thicker sections to match strength. But in this car the weight is dominated by the chassis, axles, engine etc. It would be a much higher cost, for a low overall impact to the weight because the really heavy things are unchanged. Aluminium also has some different characteristics (complex, depending on exact comparisons) versus steel. Its easy to forget that steel is a fantastic mix of strength, flexibility, repairability, etc.

in something like the rangie, with no chassis, the whole monocoque in aluminium represents a bigger return on the cost.

James · Nov 23, 2023

Rubicon Maybe said:
Interesting. All the literature I have received has stated galvanized steel. Glad to read that aluminum is used on the doors/hood. But why not just extend that to the rest of the body?

A suspension lift by itself is seldom sufficient when installing larger tires. The stress on components goes up significantly. The angles of the drivetrain change and have to be accounted for. The ball joints of the front axle wear significantly faster if not engineered for the larger tires, brake systems may have to be exchanged to handle the greater rotational mass, etc, etc.

But yes, I have seen Jeeps that just threw larger tires on and drove off. But problems, often significant, occur sooner or later if the needed changes to accept the larger tires are not accounted for. So are you saying that this has already been done to the IG?

…there’s also nothing galvanised on the grenadier.
all the steel is treated against corrosion, but with more modern treatments than galvanising. Their literature has always said this, e-coat, and wax flooding plus powder coating for the chassis for example, and a very new type of e-coat for the bodywork.

Rubicon Maybe · Nov 23, 2023

James said:
…there’s also nothing galvanised on the grenadier.
all the steel is treated against corrosion, but with more modern treatments than galvanising. Their literature has always said this, e-coat, and wax flooding plus powder coating for the chassis for example, and a very new type of e-coat for the bodywork.

Not to debate you. I appreciate the insight you are providing. But this is what is written in their 2024 brochure

James · Nov 23, 2023

Rubicon Maybe said:
Not to debate you. I appreciate the insight you are providing. But this is what is written in their 2024 brochureView attachment 7833707

It is a bit mixed messaging isnt it

the old videos on building the grenadier go into quite a lot of detail on body shop and paint shop, as did early literature; but then who knows exactly what has and hasnt changed.
im comfortable that the car is well corrosion protected so this is for interest, but if anyone has factory knowledge about this, pleae contribute!
maybe its both, maybe the term galvanised is being used loosely,
Thanks for pointing it out btw, always happy to learn.

maybe also reassuring for you on heavier wheels, the front axles dont use trad ball joints, but more robust double cardan joints. I had to look it up, but its good news for strength and longevity. No idea if its strong enough for your purpose, but there’s a better chance than if it were ball joints.

Rubicon Maybe · Nov 23, 2023

James said:
It is a bit mixed messaging isnt it
the old videos on building the grenadier go into quite a lot of detail on body shop and paint shop, as did early literature; but then who knows exactly what has and hasnt changed.
im comfortable that the car is well corrosion protected so this is for interest, but if anyone has factory knowledge about this, pleae contribute!
maybe its both, maybe the term galvanised is being used loosely,
Thanks for pointing it out btw, always happy to learn.

maybe also reassuring for you on heavier wheels, the front axles dont use trad ball joints, but more robust double cardan joints. I had to look it up, but its good news for strength and longevity. No idea if its strong enough for your purpose, but there’s a better chance than if it were ball joints.

that is good news. It truly appears to be a well designed vehicle compared to Jeeps, Broncos, etc. Yet I am sure they can improve on it with next generation developments. Thus the reason for the thread, to learn what others think might be of interest in developing.

I like the idea of a full float axle that was mentioned. The 2024 Jeep Rubicon has even gone to these for the latest upgrade of that platform.

Thanks for all your insight and thoughts.

James · Nov 23, 2023

Rubicon Maybe said:
that is good news. It truly appears to be a well designed vehicle compared to Jeeps, Broncos, etc. Yet I am sure they can improve on it with next generation developments. Thus the reason for the thread, to learn what others think might be of interest in developing.

I like the idea of a full float axle that was mentioned. The 2024 Jeep Rubicon has even gone to these for the latest upgrade of that platform.

Thanks for all your insight and thoughts.

It is an interesting and necessary thread.
It is totally a guess based on the culture of the company, but I suspect any changes will be minor iterations (and legislated feature adds) and that Ineos will not often make significant changes to the platform. If stuff falls off or is unreliable, absolutely. But other changes, not so much.
The big ‘if‘ here is the extent to which they want to increase US sales. If the total output is going to remain at the 30,000 level they projected, plus new models like the BEV, then I’d put a small wager on my guess. Euro rules give them a real problem with this car if they go above that; their exemptions revolve around being a small volume manufacturer.
If they find a way around that, or want to produce in mexico or something, and are chasing volume in the US, then lots of things they have studiously avoided doing to the car will become imperatives they will likely incorporate.

Emotionally, Jim as a Defender lover, along with many of us are used to a vehicle that changed very little over 60 years, and rarely that in less than 10.

could all be total bollocks though….

Jeremy996 · Nov 23, 2023

Some interesting issues raised, but a few statements that suggest some fuzzy knowledge around the platforms and aims.

The body is galvanised, the moveable panels all alloy. The chassis is not galvanised but painted more like an oil rig. Changing the body to alloy would have limited benefit as the running gear is the heavy stuff and alloy has fatigue resistance issues.

The payload is limited by the road licencing issues in the UK/EU, the vehicle would be fine with a replating on a Maximum Approved Mass basis, but the vehicles would all be subject to tachograph rules and the drivers would need a commercial vehicle driving licence. I do not think that Ineos Automotive has the bandwidth to make significantly localised versions yet. I'm sure when initial sales are fulfilled, they will be looking for niches to sell into. (A chassis cab would be nice!)

Eibach - the OE spring supplier, can sell you a lift kit. Another supplier has a portal axle set up you can buy, but you need very deep pockets.

DenisM · Nov 24, 2023

James said:
It is a bit mixed messaging isnt it
the old videos on building the grenadier go into quite a lot of detail on body shop and paint shop, as did early literature; but then who knows exactly what has and hasnt changed.
im comfortable that the car is well corrosion protected so this is for interest, but if anyone has factory knowledge about this, pleae contribute!
maybe its both, maybe the term galvanised is being used loosely,
Thanks for pointing it out btw, always happy to learn.

maybe also reassuring for you on heavier wheels, the front axles dont use trad ball joints, but more robust double cardan joints. I had to look it up, but its good news for strength and longevity. No idea if its strong enough for your purpose, but there’s a better chance than if it were ball joints.

Almost: The front suspension incorporates king pins rather than ball joints; front drive shafts incorporate double cardan joints rather than constant velocity joints....

James · Nov 24, 2023

Jeremy996 said:
Some interesting issues raised, but a few statements that suggest some fuzzy knowledge around the platforms and aims.

The body is galvanised, the moveable panels all alloy. The chassis is not galvanised but painted more like an oil rig. Changing the body to alloy would have limited benefit as the running gear is the heavy stuff and alloy has fatigue resistance issues.

The payload is limited by the road licencing issues in the UK/EU, the vehicle would be fine with a replating on a Maximum Approved Mass basis, but the vehicles would all be subject to tachograph rules and the drivers would need a commercial vehicle driving licence. I do not think that Ineos Automotive has the bandwidth to make significantly localised versions yet. I'm sure when initial sales are fulfilled, they will be looking for niches to sell into. (A chassis cab would be nice!)

Eibach - the OE spring supplier, can sell you a lift kit. Another supplier has a portal axle set up you can buy, but you need very deep pockets.

Thanks, so is the answer is both, galv and ecoat for steel body parts?

Jeremy996 · Nov 24, 2023

James said:
Thanks, so is the answer is both, galv and ecoat for steel body parts?

So far as I can tell from Ineos Automotive's statements.

I suspect it may be "Zinc Wiped" like Audi rather than hot-dip galvanised, but it seems to work for Audi.

Top Cat · Nov 28, 2023

TheDocAUS said:
Modify the NATO plug circuit so it can be used to charge caravans/trailers/devices, not just the winch. The current setup is not towing friendly.

Maybe even have a switch to reduce the max amperage on the circuit when towing, you do not need 350 amps when towing.

'Hi Doc
Yes. I have been considering my caravan options as well. Redarc systems for the brakers with the extension kit is a good start. Their factory is here in SA and they were actually taking delivery of their Grenadier when I picked mine up.
The twelve pin plug for caravan and trailer is going to be standard on the rear from the NATO plug end and a regulated solar panel Anderson plug on the other side that can also be used for the compressor. Still working through the electrics. Have put on a radio using l/h footwell and a rear working light from one of the outside sockets. Also looking to put an Anderson plug on the front once I find the connection!

NQ94 · Nov 28, 2023

Opening wings/fenders would make servicing and engine repairs easier (Photo Credit Land Rover Photography Group, FB)

trobex · Nov 28, 2023

Bolts, nuts, clamps, brackets etc minimum HDG finish not zinc. Fix door seal design for entire vehicle. Remove RHD footwell intrusion. Give space for putting stuff down like phone, wallet, etc etc. Give the driver a bloody grab bar on the pillar. Make tilt and reach actual usable for the full range of the seat adjustabilty. Find a new plastic moulding company in general - get that stuff straight please. Go hyrdogen fuel cell - yes please. Make it so the lockers actuality show up as engaged/disengaged properly and not have is doing drive by with half turns to try unlock things!!! Lumber support in the Recaro seat would be good.

Krabby · Nov 28, 2023

NQ94 said:
View attachment 7834211
Opening wings/fenders would make servicing and engine repairs easier (Photo Credit Land Rover Photography Group, FB)

I believe those days are long and gone with - especially since engine bays are now packed to the gills. Would make stuff a lot easier though.

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Thoughts on future changes to the IG platform

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