Americas Less impressed after the test

[BionicBrandon]

I just find it odd that you come on a forum dedicated to a specific vehicle and offer up your opinion, which is fine, but you are judgy in the language you use (i.e “fans who are willing to order an expensive truck despite water flooding in and out when it rains, questionable driving position and dynamics, service network that is 8 hrs away and other potential shortcomings“). That to me just makes your opinion of no value to me. You are basically calling everyone that buys a Grenadier a moron/idiot.

If you had not included the last paragraph I’d actually have respect for your viewpoint.

@AngusMacG , is he wrong? People ARE ordering IG despite these things. That doesn’t make them morons. Their needs and worries are different than his. Not better or worse, just different.

I respectfully disagree that him stating facts devalues his opinion, especially when plenty of people have those same concerns…which Ineos is specifically attempting to address.

 

[Cheshire cat]

I finally got the chance to test the Ineos Grenadier this week in Chicago, I drove a total of 8 hrs to check the truck. David, Julia and Billie were very friendly however their operation is like a day 1 in a startup - e.g. they didn’t have paint samples and none of the 2 colors trucks they had on hand were among the colors I was considering. Coming from a heavily modified LC200 and currently driving a Gen 3 Raptor I noticed quite a few minuses that made my think twice if I want to sell my Raptor to get the IG. I realize that prior vehicles, overall expectations and intended use will have significant impact on how one perceives the truck. I hope everyone who orders the truck gets to test it first since it might not be a great daily driver for many people on this side of the pond.

Things I disliked:

• Cabin Access: The design of the steps is a bit of a letdown, this was the biggest miss for me. They're fine for entering the vehicle but prove awkward when exiting. The absence of grab handles, particularly for the driver and rear passengers, is a notable omission, detracting from overall accessibility. I think cabin access will be even harder with 33s and rock rails. The only solution I can think it’s a rock slider with a larger plate like I had on my LC, a set of White Knuckle Offroad sliders with diamond plate.
• Driver Position: The ergonomic setup in the driver's seat feels off-kilter. The brake pedal's rightward position demands an uncomfortable twist of the body during longer stop lights. I only noticed this when I had to wait long at a stop.
• Rear Foot Room: The curved footwell in the back limits the space for your toes, could make long rides less comfortable. There was enough leg room in the back.
• Engine Performance: The engine, while adequate, doesn't deliver the punch I expected. I realize I got spoiled with the last 2 engines I had. This one felt more like my 2005 4Runner V8 after 200k miles.
• Interior Noise: The cabin is noisier than anticipated, especially after 60-65 mph.
• Rear Visibility: The design of the rear windows limits visibility for passengers, a factor that could affect the overall experience during scenic drives. Rear view is almost completely blocked by the spare tire but I was expecting this. If I get the truck I’ll probably try to add a new rearview mirror that is connected to a higher res camera.
• Blind Spot: The combination of small mirrors and a large B pillar creates a significant blind spot. A small convex mirror addition will probably mitigate this issue.
• Lack of USB Ports: A surprising miss in a modern vehicle, potentially rectifiable in future models or update or even pulling a cable from the back USB outlets.
• Camera and Screen Quality: The rear camera and infotainment screen are disappointingly inadequate, particularly in bright conditions. Screen glare is a significant issue, I’m wondering if a future after-market glass protector would reduce the glare. I have no idea why they selected such a low-res camera and allocated only a stamp-size portion of the screen to display.
• Low-Speed Wobble: The vehicle exhibits a noticeable wobble at low speeds, though it seems to stabilize on highways. I adjusted to the steering feel quickly but the truck appeared to wonder left and right at low speeds (20-30 mph).
• Parking Maneuverability: The vehicle's turning radius makes parking maneuvers, like backing into spots, challenging and will require a period of adjustment.

What I liked:

• Aesthetics: The overall look of the Grenadier is undeniably appealing, blending ruggedness with a certain elegance.
• Cabin Layout: The layout inside, barring the storage issue, is well-thought-out, though it can feel a bit cramped.
• Engine Bay Access: The ease of access to the engine bay is commendable, a stark contrast to many modern vehicles where routine checks can be a hassle.
• Split Door and Tire Position: The split door system is a practical touch, and while it affects rear visibility, it adds to the vehicle's utility.
• Utility Rails: The inclusion of utility rails inside and out is a thoughtful addition, I added similar tracks to the bed of the Raptor.
• Visibility for Off-Roading: The good visibility of the front corners is a boon, especially for off-roading, allowing precise placement of the wheels.
• Everything under the truck looked very beefy.
• The winch integration was really neat

Small wishlist:

• Adaptive Cruise Control: A feature that's becoming standard in many vehicles, it's surprising is missing on a truck in this price range.
• Blind spot monitor: I think this feature is coming in the MY2024.
• Brake Auto Hold: This would add a layer of convenience, particularly in stop-and-go traffic.
• Lift and Tires: A factory option for a 1.5” lift and 33s tires would be ideal, enhancing the vehicle’s off-road capabilities without compromising stability.
• Better rock sliders that can help with cabin access.

In spite of all the negatives identified I'm still keeping the reservation and wait for the reviews from N America that hopefully will come soon. If they fixed all the electrical gremlins I might end up getting this truck. Otherwise I'm worried about having to tow the truck 4 hours to the dealer and live with the shortcomings mentioned above. Hats off to those who took the risk of ordering right away before it was proven.


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Hi Gxgn
As an owner of the Grenadier, my hackles were raised at the title of your post however, having read it, I found it to be a very fair and comprehensive report on the vehicle. The weaknesses you pointed out reflect my experiences. The good news as you pointed out in some examples, the weak points are in many cases easy to address. I already have the dash cam rear view mirror fitted and aftermarket side steps which make a big difference. The lack of USB’s were easy to address also and allowed me to place them wherever I chose. I know that at this price point it could be argued that I shouldn’t have to add my own USB’s, rear view mirrors, etc but the way I see it, my purchase price has paid for an intrinsically solid vehicle built to last. Like my Harley Davidson, it is almost an expectation that these vehicles will often e d up heavily customised and not switched out after three or four years.
Overall a good feedback for others. It is for you to decide if it will fit your needs. For me, it has rendered my old Td5 Defender a Sunday ride only. Wishing you every success in whatever direction you choose.
One final note. The lack of adaptive cruise control is my only big disappointment.

 

[Cheshire cat]

As it has been mentioned in other posts…trying to do a comparison between disparate vehicles will always hasve on vehicle at a disadvantage.

The only exception I would make to your small wishlist is the Adaptive cruise control. This is something that I absolutely despise. It is the worst “feature” a vehicle can have as it allows drivers to be lazy and pay less attention to the road. In addition it makes you subject to the speeds of the person driving in front of you. There’s nothing worse than being in the left lane of a highway and that vehicle with NY/NJ/RI plates is driving 70 and doesn't move over when you are going 75. With adaptive cc you are now driving 70 and the person in front of you has no idea that they should move over. Rant completed

Hi Angus
As much as I like Adaptive cruise myself I have to agree that the Grenadier does make one feel more ‘involved’ in the drive, which for me has been a good experience. I even enjoy the fact I have to lean forward to see past the B pillar. It really does work for me. Over the moon with my four months and five thousand miles so far.

 

[255/85]

We took an on road test drive the other day but didn't feel I had enough to offer the forum to start a new thread so this feels like a good place to list a few observations that are either in agreement or contrast to the OP's. The ridiculously truncated off road test that I drove 500 miles to attend in spring gave little insight so we did the 4-5 hour drive to the nearest dealership to learn more. My views here are still those of a non owner so please take them with a grain of salt.

Things I disliked:

• Cabin Access: The design of the steps is a bit of a letdown, this was the biggest miss for me. They're fine for entering the vehicle but prove awkward when exiting. The absence of grab handles, particularly for the driver and rear passengers, is a notable omission, detracting from overall accessibility.

I would somewhat second the entry/exit conundrum. The steps are handy but not needed to get in, and we both slid right out off the seat and to the ground without touching or even seeing the side steps. Multiple times. Kind of funny. The grab handles are there but overhead and not on the pillars. I assume it's a familiarity thing.

• Driver Position: The ergonomic setup in the driver's seat feels off-kilter. The brake pedal's rightward position demands an uncomfortable twist of the body during longer stop lights. I only noticed this when I had to wait long at a stop.

We didn't notice anything being misaligned. I do remember noticing that I adjusted to the throttle and brake pedals' position after only a single glance down when I first climbed into the driver's seat. Could your perceived twist to the right be due to using your left foot to brake during on-road driving?

• Engine Performance: The engine, while adequate, doesn't deliver the punch I expected. I realize I got spoiled with the last 2 engines I had. This one felt more like my 2005 4Runner V8 after 200k miles.

Figures do not lie, people. The petrol Trialmaster we were in drove exactly like a 285 HP/332 ft lb engine should in such an extremely weighty vehicle. Don't expect V8 power. I don't now squat about the B58 engine but, if you're going to demand daily stoplight to stoplight performance out of it, I suspect you will be severely disappointed long before the 200K mark. This is a gut feeling. I advise implementing some mechanical sympathy beginning day one. Or get a different vehicle.

• Interior Noise: The cabin is noisier than anticipated, especially after 60-65 mph.

Quieter than any vehicle I own so all is relative here.

• Low-Speed Wobble: The vehicle exhibits a noticeable wobble at low speeds, though it seems to stabilize on highways. I adjusted to the steering feel quickly but the truck appeared to wonder left and right at low speeds (20-30 mph).

Our test vehicle was one of the tightest recirc ball steering vehicles I have ever driven. Over a very patched and potholed stretch of road I didn't need to hold the wheel with anything more than a light single handed grip. On straight paved roadway there was no need for any input after the initial alignment to the lane. I drove with two fingers on the wheel. My partner said that she didn't even notice the steering.

• Parking Maneuverability: The vehicle's turning radius makes parking maneuvers, like backing into spots, challenging and will require a period of adjustment.

I was impressed by how maneuverable the Grenadier is. I did a complete U turn in a two lane street with unused parking (slightly less than a true four lane road). I then did figure eights. I would say somewhat on par with a solid axled full size single cab pickup. I would be willing to bet that the steering stops are set tight to prevent inner axle DC joints from breaking when new owners get themselves hung up in the rocks on their first outing but that's speculation.

What I liked:

• Cabin Layout: The layout inside, barring the storage issue, is well-thought-out, though it can feel a bit cramped.

It is not a large vehicle for us Yanks. I was surprised how small the vehicle was on the very first time I saw it. My female partner said the same thing regarding the interior width (both of us are relatively thin). Much like a Jeep JLU, 4Runner, etc. Much better head room than a Jeep.

Small wishlist:

• Brake Auto Hold: This would add a layer of convenience, particularly in stop-and-go traffic.

It has been illustrated that there is a mild Hill Hold Control feature built in (Robert Pepper video) but it is unknown if this is functional on flat ground. Is it not part of the Stop/Start function?

• Lift and Tires: A factory option for a 1.5” lift and 33s tires would be ideal, enhancing the vehicle’s off-road capabilities without compromising stability.

Any lift compromises stability without a corresponding increase in width between the outer edge of the tires. Advertised rollover angle would be diminished without that compensation.

I'm going to add in here that the vehicle drives exactly as it is designed. It's a short arm 5 link on coils. I will go so far as to say that I believe the suspension is largely designed after late model Jeeps. Maybe after TJ/LJs rather than JL/JLUs. Two days after our Grenadier test drive I took an on road test drive in a low spec 2023 4 door Jeep on 31ish tires. I'll stand by my statement.

 

[trobex]

I just find it odd that you come on a forum dedicated to a specific vehicle and offer up your opinion, which is fine, but you are judgy in the language you use (i.e “fans who are willing to order an expensive truck despite water flooding in and out when it rains, questionable driving position and dynamics, service network that is 8 hrs away and other potential shortcomings“). That to me just makes your opinion of no value to me. You are basically calling everyone that buys a Grenadier a moron/idiot.

If you had not included the last paragraph I’d actually have respect for your viewpoint.

He still has valid points and you should not be offended so easily. I have plenty of gripes with the Gren but still drive it with a smile on my face... even if my left leg is wedged because of that bogus footwell intrusion

 

[Shoogs]

I think it was a fair assessment, for what its worth I own 2 Defenders, a 1996 110 and 1998 90 and many more in the past and there are days I could take a flame thrower to them... but I persevere and have done so for 30 odd years, because I smile when I know I will be driving one and no matter what, I always look back when walking away. Just something there that Defender owners know.

The Grenadier gives me the same feeling, its a thing... and that's what a vehicle should do for you.

 

[nuclearbeef]

James, I don’t think you profiled me correctly. I’m usually very silent on the forums I visit, learning about a topic of interest and if anything I could be accused of not contributing enough. No, I’m not an influencer nor am I someone who would easily take a day off to do 500 miles to test a truck. I spent a fair amount of time on the Raptor forum before deciding to buy one and I can tell you the amount and severity of the issues that were usually discussed were minor compared to what I see on this forum.

My intent was to let some others that are on the fence know it’s not all rosy with the IG and one should think carefully of a switch if they currently drive something that is more comfortable, more reliable etc. as I mentioned I‘m still considering the IG, I’ll just have to decide later if it’s the best move for me.

I’m also surprised to see such a strong following base of fans who are willing to order an expensive truck despite water flooding in and out when it rains, questionable driving position and dynamics, service network that is 8 hrs away and other potential shortcomings. I realize no car is perfect but I hoped that after over 1 million miles of test drives they figured out most of the bugs.

I found most of the same things you did on my test drive.
I think it boils down to what your baseline is currently set to.

After reading all the posts on here of people who were amazed at the on-road characteristics of the Grenadier, I expected more. Maybe they all are coming from old Defenders.
I drive a 2021 LC 200. The Gren compares poorly against the 200 in every way... on-road.
I also drive a 1985 LC BJ75. The Gren is a vast improvement over the 75 series in every way... on-road.

I went in to the test drive thinking the newer Gren would improve on the 200 LC in most respects. I was disappointed in that regard.

However, I left the test drive and realized I was comparing it to the wrong vehicle.
When compared to a 70 series LC, an old Defender, a Jeep or similar, the Gren is an improvement in all categories.

If I'm honest, since I do most of my driving on-road, a 200 LC would be a wiser choice. (More power, more room, better ergonomics, known excellent reliability, quieter, smoother, similar fuel economy, very good off-road.)

Yet, I'm still buying the Gren!

I LOVE driving my BJ75 Troopy with all of 90 horsepower hauling around nearly 5000 lbs. It's noisy, poorly insulated, rides like a log wagon, and gets remarkably poor fuel milage for a 3.4l 4-cylinder diesel.

I suspect that not only will I be able to live with the Gren's perceived shortcomings, but they will endear themselves to me and cause me to love it even more.

(I'll be keeping the 200, though;... just in case)

 

[[ Adam ]]

However, I left the test drive and realized I was comparing it to the wrong vehicle.
When compared to a 70 series LC, an old Defender, a Jeep or similar, the Gren is an improvement in all categories.

I think this may be a key disconnect - for those who have not owned and lived with one of the above, and are coming from a modern IFS SUV or truck, they may be disappointed. For those of us who have owned defenders - I'm ecstatic that its (mostly) water tight.

I don't want a modern SUV - I want a modernized Defender, and IMO, that's what the Grenadier provides.

 

[Krabby]

...I want a modernized Defender, and IMO, that's what the Grenadier provides.

Exactly. If it's as enjoyable as my 80-series LC and my Disco II I'll be quite happy. Would like operational HVAC though.

 

[AnD3rew]

Exactly. If it's as enjoyable as my 80-series LC and my Disco II I'll be quite happy. Would like operational HVAC though.

Still not sure about the heating as I have only had ocassion to use it once as we are heading into summer now. The aircon is wierd and has a mind of its own, but I have now mastered an intricate knob twiddling symphony that basically gets me what I want 90% of the time. But I couldn’t for the life of me explain it to someone else, it’s definitely not a matter of putting it in auto and setting a temperature l.

 

[GrumpyBastard]

I think constructive criticism/ negative comments are more than welcome here. However, all of the things discussed in this post were things that everyone who has been following this project have been well aware of, so I found this redundant, superfluous, and unnecessary. As a former modified Raptor driver, this vehicle is aimed at a completely different niche. People that drive niche vehicles as daily drivers and then complain about how incompatible they are are missing the point in my opinion. The raptor sucked for driving around, parking, drive thrus, all that. But for high speed off roading it was awesome. It in no way compares to slow speed jeep/gren off roading.

 

[Tazzieman]

He still has valid points and you should not be offended so easily. I have plenty of gripes with the Gren but still drive it with a smile on my face... even if my left leg is wedged because of that bogus footwell intrusion

I think we all need to see a photo of your humungous leg, but keep your pants on.

 

[Roadking01]

I’ve had a Raptor R on order since Jan 23. But, went an drove the IG two weeks ago. Really liked it. Felt solid and I liked the ride

 

[Beowulf]

Are there plans to add Adaptive Cruise Control for MY25? How about front facing Camera? Or Panaromic for offroad?

 

[FlyingTexan]

Are there plans to add Adaptive Cruise Control for MY25? How about front facing Camera? Or Panaromic for offroad?

The purpose of the IG was to have the least of these types of addons as possible.

 

[Roach]

@FlyingTexan agree but my desire was to have fewer things that would make it difficult to repair. If the Pano roof breaks or the ACC goofs up you can make it home.

 

[AngusMacG]

I vehemently despise ACC…focus on your driving. If you are in any situation when other vehicles are on the road with you then you should be paying attention to your driving. That second or 2 that it takes u to override the ACC (or for the ACC to react) may cause issues for you or other vehicles on the road.

Driving is not a passive activity.

 

[Roach]

I love the idea of ACC and other features being optional/standard. Maybe it could even improve the gas mileage

 

[landmannnn]

I vehemently despise ACC…focus on your driving. If you are in any situation when other vehicles are on the road with you then you should be paying attention to your driving. That second or 2 that it takes u to override the ACC (or for the ACC to react) may cause issues for you or other vehicles on the road.

Driving is not a passive activity.

What I find annoying is where somebody moves into gap in front (ACC means there is always a reasonable gap) and the ACC brakes or slows considerably.
With dumb cruise control you would normally just change lanes to maintain your speed.

 

[bemax]

I vehemently despise ACC…focus on your driving. If you are in any situation when other vehicles are on the road with you then you should be paying attention to your driving. That second or 2 that it takes u to override the ACC (or for the ACC to react) may cause issues for you or other vehicles on the road.

Driving is not a passive activity.

I am sure that you are one of the few drivers that focus on the road without any excuses. Allways! But the truth is that many people do not have this 100 % focus on the road. Obviously it will not be the same for you, but many people get distracted by talking to other passengers (or on the phone) Some search for food or beverages in the door or somewhere else. Some focus half a second on the radio or phone.
For all those not 100 % perfect drivers (like me for example) ACC is a great safety feature in many but not all circumstances.
There is no need to think it will safe the world, but to "despise it vehemently" is a little bit to easy as well.
Best regards
bemax