On the Road - Initial Thoughts

[lightning]

On my old Defender l fitted an RTC steering damper and it made the steering self centre a lot more like a car.

lt also improved straight line driving but that isn't an issue with Grenadier.

Maybe that could be an option on the Grenadier, for those who want better self centering.

 

[DCPU]

Maybe that could be an option on the Grenadier, for those who want better self centering.

Does anyone not?

I think it may be a way to go ~ I've never had need for one before, so would like to see if there's a solution that goes more to the issue rather than reducing the symptoms.

I'd like to solve this, and whilst thinking about the axles perhaps look more into the propshaft angles together.

 

[grenadierboy]

On my old Defender l fitted an RTC steering damper and it made the steering self centre a lot more like a car.

lt also improved straight line driving but that isn't an issue with Grenadier.

Maybe that could be an option on the Grenadier, for those who want better self centering.

a pretty low cost easy & quick improvement

 

[AnD3rew]

Does anyone not?

I think it may be a way to go ~ I've never had need for one before, so would like to see if there's a solution that goes more to the issue rather than reducing the symptoms.

I'd like to solve this, and whilst thinking about the axles perhaps look more into the propshaft angles together.

If it could be done without compromise I might consider it, but now that I am used to the steering I don’t feel an urgent need to do anything about it. It does return to center it’s just slower than I am used to but as long as you are anticipating it it is fine.

The RTC dampers I have seen all are not as robust in the tube as the Grenadier ones and have a spring around the tube. For us RHD owners I am not sure considering the position of the damper if it is even possible and even if it is I suspect it might be too vulnerable to be practical. So for me, for the moment at least it’s a no for me.

 

[Clark Kent]

Interesting that this is back in discussion today. I was chatting to my local ARB dealer yesterday about the Grenadier. He recently drove an agent's personal Trialmaster vehicle and made two observations about the steering: the aircraft-carrier sized turning circle, and the limited return to centre (RTC) action. For context, this guy is an automotive engineer and grew up on old school live axle vehicles. He does a lot of work with ARB OME suspension. He drives a very nice 79 series with all the ARB fruit installed.
His rationale for the lack of RTC action was probably the weight over the front axle, and/or a very stiff steering damper. He predicted there should be around 6 or 7 degrees of castor as a result. He was very surprised to see the alignment specs (posted here recently) where there is only 2 degrees castor (nominal). High castor is good for RTC but can contribute to wheel shimmy on live axles.
Now, who remembers the video that did the rounds showing some ugly wheel shimmy on a PTO vehicle when the front suspension unloaded after a corner? How to fix that... Maybe stiffen the steering damper some more and take out some castor? A byproduct could be the low RTC action.
It's just a theory!
Discuss.

 

[DaBull]

On my old Defender l fitted an RTC steering damper and it made the steering self centre a lot more like a car.

lt also improved straight line driving but that isn't an issue with Grenadier.

Maybe that could be an option on the Grenadier, for those who want better self centering.

Hi Lightning, This Return To Center Damper, (RTC), from Road Master seems to be a step ahead of any others on the market. Hopefully someone can take their Grenadier to them to make up a kit and brackets to install one. It is patented. Here's a couple links. DaBull

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...y-roadmaster-explained-by-the-inventor.87515/​

https://www.roadmasterinc.com/products/rss/exactcenter.php​

 

[SBA]

What a Great Summary. I have driven about 350 miles since monday in it and what vehicle its tonka tough approach. I will be towing a agricultrail trailer tomorrow down a dirt track so see how it copes with that.
The Fit and Finish is as expected, the High low gear could be of better quality to the feel. It rained heavy the other day and when I opened the rear doors needed a umbrella.
Coming from a 2014 LHD 110 Crew cab this is night and day for me its a pleasure to drive very comfortable, quite powerful and the presence on the Road is amazing.
I will be looking at another one for my european business,

 

[stuart1927]

I picked up my Grenadier from Armstrongs in Auckland yesterday. It's a diesel trialmaster (that thinks it's a fieldmaster!)
Had a nice drive down to New Plymouth (a 4 hr drive) so had time to get some pretty good first impressions on a range of roads, from highway to twisties.

• Car has exceeded my impressions in terms of solidity, road presence and general cool factor
• Everyone says it, but yup, this thing is a tank. It looks like one and feels like one.
• Fit and finish is overall very good...quite superb for a first vehicle by ineos
• Software update was completed prior to me picking up so no dings, warnings etc. of any kind
• I am getting a slight rattle/resonance on initial acceleration and at a specific rev range- I will investigate various heat shields before reporting this as an issue
• Engine is a bit noiser than I was expecting, a real old sounding diesel! I did expect it to be a bit more refined but it's not a dealbreaker by any means. I wonder if it will bed in a bit over time. Cars with stainless steel exhausts can be quite noisy until they carbon up.
• It takes a bit of coaxing to get the car moving off the line....gas pedal feels a little bit unresponsive but fine once you are moving
• Footwell....Not a problem for me, but I can see why it will be for some. Nothing to do with height or width, it's just the length that you are robbed of. Just about every post on this has been wrong and have been emphasising the wrong problem!
• Steering...actually quite fun...don't really know why some complain, it suits the car and after a couple of hrs you get tuned into it.
• Best door handles of any car on earth.....seriously, they are awesome!
• Water pooling! It rained a lot last night and when I started driving this morning there were rivers of water flowing from various places on the roof down the windscreen and side windows (outside fortunately) it took a few mins for the water to finally drain. Not sure if this is an issue at all, it just hasn't happened on any other vehicle I've owned.
• Avergage full consumption was 11.6l/100km...not too bad for a brand new car. I expect it will improve.
• Aircon works really well....no issues
• All accessories were delivered with the car, except picnic table and "RECOVERY KIT"
• Overall, very happy with this machine. It's a really unique vehicle and definitely fit for purpose.
• Had a few people approach me already to ask about the car

So all very positive after 1 day. Hopefully I can resolve the resonance issue and get more used to the drivetrain dynamics after more driving.

 

[hopefulkiwi]

I picked up my Grenadier from Armstrongs in Auckland yesterday. It's a diesel trialmaster (that thinks it's a fieldmaster!)
Had a nice drive down to New Plymouth (a 4 hr drive) so had time to get some pretty good first impressions on a range of roads, from highway to twisties.

• Car has exceeded my impressions in terms of solidity, road presence and general cool factor
• Everyone says it, but yup, this thing is a tank. It looks like one and feels like one.
• Fit and finish is overall very good...quite superb for a first vehicle by ineos
• Software update was completed prior to me picking up so no dings, warnings etc. of any kind
• I am getting a slight rattle/resonance on initial acceleration and at a specific rev range- I will investigate various heat shields before reporting this as an issue
• Engine is a bit noiser than I was expecting, a real old sounding diesel! I did expect it to be a bit more refined but it's not a dealbreaker by any means. I wonder if it will bed in a bit over time. Cars with stainless steel exhausts can be quite noisy until they carbon up.
• It takes a bit of coaxing to get the car moving off the line....gas pedal feels a little bit unresponsive but fine once you are moving
• Footwell....Not a problem for me, but I can see why it will be for some. Nothing to do with height or width, it's just the length that you are robbed of. Just about every post on this has been wrong and have been emphasising the wrong problem!
• Steering...actually quite fun...don't really know why some complain, it suits the car and after a couple of hrs you get tuned into it.
• Best door handles of any car on earth.....seriously, they are awesome!
• Water pooling! It rained a lot last night and when I started driving this morning there were rivers of water flowing from various places on the roof down the windscreen and side windows (outside fortunately) it took a few mins for the water to finally drain. Not sure if this is an issue at all, it just hasn't happened on any other vehicle I've owned.
• Avergage full consumption was 11.6l/100km...not too bad for a brand new car. I expect it will improve.
• Aircon works really well....no issues
• All accessories were delivered with the car, except picnic table and towing kit
• Overall, very happy with this machine. It's a really unique vehicle and definitely fit for purpose.
• Had a few people approach me already to ask about the car

So all very positive after 1 day. Hopefully I can resolve the resonance issue and get more used to the drivetrain dynamics after more driving.

very happy that you finally have it Stuart I like your colur combo it is one of my choices

 

[ECrider]

I picked up my Grenadier from Armstrongs in Auckland yesterday. It's a diesel trialmaster (that thinks it's a fieldmaster!)
Had a nice drive down to New Plymouth (a 4 hr drive) so had time to get some pretty good first impressions on a range of roads, from highway to twisties.

• Car has exceeded my impressions in terms of solidity, road presence and general cool factor
• Everyone says it, but yup, this thing is a tank. It looks like one and feels like one.
• Fit and finish is overall very good...quite superb for a first vehicle by ineos
• Software update was completed prior to me picking up so no dings, warnings etc. of any kind
• I am getting a slight rattle/resonance on initial acceleration and at a specific rev range- I will investigate various heat shields before reporting this as an issue
• Engine is a bit noiser than I was expecting, a real old sounding diesel! I did expect it to be a bit more refined but it's not a dealbreaker by any means. I wonder if it will bed in a bit over time. Cars with stainless steel exhausts can be quite noisy until they carbon up.
• It takes a bit of coaxing to get the car moving off the line....gas pedal feels a little bit unresponsive but fine once you are moving
• Footwell....Not a problem for me, but I can see why it will be for some. Nothing to do with height or width, it's just the length that you are robbed of. Just about every post on this has been wrong and have been emphasising the wrong problem!
• Steering...actually quite fun...don't really know why some complain, it suits the car and after a couple of hrs you get tuned into it.
• Best door handles of any car on earth.....seriously, they are awesome!
• Water pooling! It rained a lot last night and when I started driving this morning there were rivers of water flowing from various places on the roof down the windscreen and side windows (outside fortunately) it took a few mins for the water to finally drain. Not sure if this is an issue at all, it just hasn't happened on any other vehicle I've owned.
• Avergage full consumption was 11.6l/100km...not too bad for a brand new car. I expect it will improve.
• Aircon works really well....no issues
• All accessories were delivered with the car, except picnic table and towing kit
• Overall, very happy with this machine. It's a really unique vehicle and definitely fit for purpose.
• Had a few people approach me already to ask about the car

So all very positive after 1 day. Hopefully I can resolve the resonance issue and get more used to the drivetrain dynamics after more driving.

Congratulations and awesome colour combo. I have serious chequer plate envy!

If you get a chance could you have a feel under the bonnet wings and advise if you can feel/see any reinforcement under the chequer? My wings are very soft in the middle. (no chequer plate option in UK).

 

[bigleonski]

I picked up my Grenadier from Armstrongs in Auckland yesterday. It's a diesel trialmaster (that thinks it's a fieldmaster!)
Had a nice drive down to New Plymouth (a 4 hr drive) so had time to get some pretty good first impressions on a range of roads, from highway to twisties.

• Car has exceeded my impressions in terms of solidity, road presence and general cool factor
• Everyone says it, but yup, this thing is a tank. It looks like one and feels like one.
• Fit and finish is overall very good...quite superb for a first vehicle by ineos
• Software update was completed prior to me picking up so no dings, warnings etc. of any kind
• I am getting a slight rattle/resonance on initial acceleration and at a specific rev range- I will investigate various heat shields before reporting this as an issue
• Engine is a bit noiser than I was expecting, a real old sounding diesel! I did expect it to be a bit more refined but it's not a dealbreaker by any means. I wonder if it will bed in a bit over time. Cars with stainless steel exhausts can be quite noisy until they carbon up.
• It takes a bit of coaxing to get the car moving off the line....gas pedal feels a little bit unresponsive but fine once you are moving
• Footwell....Not a problem for me, but I can see why it will be for some. Nothing to do with height or width, it's just the length that you are robbed of. Just about every post on this has been wrong and have been emphasising the wrong problem!
• Steering...actually quite fun...don't really know why some complain, it suits the car and after a couple of hrs you get tuned into it.
• Best door handles of any car on earth.....seriously, they are awesome!
• Water pooling! It rained a lot last night and when I started driving this morning there were rivers of water flowing from various places on the roof down the windscreen and side windows (outside fortunately) it took a few mins for the water to finally drain. Not sure if this is an issue at all, it just hasn't happened on any other vehicle I've owned.
• Avergage full consumption was 11.6l/100km...not too bad for a brand new car. I expect it will improve.
• Aircon works really well....no issues
• All accessories were delivered with the car, except picnic table and towing kit
• Overall, very happy with this machine. It's a really unique vehicle and definitely fit for purpose.
• Had a few people approach me already to ask about the car

So all very positive after 1 day. Hopefully I can resolve the resonance issue and get more used to the drivetrain dynamics after more driving.

What do you mean by “towing kit” missing?

 

[grenadierboy]

What do you mean by “towing kit” missing?

The hitch & electrics for towing?

 

[bigleonski]

The hitch & electrics for towing?

Surely that’s a factory fit?

 

[Eric]

Surely that’s a factory fit?

It is but need need @stuart1927 to confirm what he means by towing kit first, could just be the ball/pintle/hitch bit

 

[stuart1927]

What do you mean by “towing kit” missing?

sorry I meant "recovery kit" from Ineos site .....The Off-road Recovery Kit includes a range of ropes, pulleys, shackles, slings and straps, ensuring you always have all the required kit for winching or performing self-recovery.

 

[stuart1927]

What do you mean by “towing kit” missing?

See edited post!

 

[stuart1927]

Congratulations and awesome colour combo. I have serious chequer plate envy!

If you get a chance could you have a feel under the bonnet wings and advise if you can feel/see any reinforcement under the chequer? My wings are very soft in the middle. (no chequer plate option in UK).

It's difficult to tell as the wing liner covers everything. I believe the checker plate gives you a 150kg load rating. I stood up on mine yesterday (82kg) and no obvious flex.

 

[stuart1927]

very happy that you finally have it Stuart I like your colur combo it is one of my choices

Thanks! I was told this is the only Eldoret blue with white roof Grenadier in New Zealand so far! I did see one of the first deliveries in NZ was an eldoret blue, but not with the white roof!

 

[Clark Kent]

An excellent choice Sir!

 

[Ripnz]

Picked up my Diesel Trialmaster from Armstrongs Christchurch on Friday. Took it for a drive to Dunedin return today (700km). Good mix of motorway, twisties and big hills. New software .

Firstly the bad

• Have the 'vibration' issue at around 1800 rpm which equated to 103 km/h in 8th gear(speed limit in New Zealand 100 km/h) so far from ideal. Vibration felt through steering wheel, pedals, and door arm rest, quite loud too.
• Got my feet washed as it had rained overnight and door seals retained about a litre, also had a bunch pooling on the roof.
• 'Cooling Fan Error' the only warning, but the fan definitely not working. Luckily a cool day and warning only happened twice, once while stationary waiting for roadworks, and second time up a steep hill behind a slow truck. Each time pulled over, engine off, enjoy the view and then start again which cleared the warning. Checked the temperatures both times. Engine temp stayed spot on 90 degrees, but engine oil got up to 116 degrees. Gearbox steady at 96 degrees.
• Window wipers are optimised for LHD not RHD. An area about the size of an A4 piece of paper does not get wiped in the bottom right of the window. The area is big enough to be a problem, especially if you want to see just to the right of the right fender.
• The occasional clunk from the suspension, probably the springs re-centering in the cones, but still unnerving.
• Steering quite vague. Constant corrections required. Was getting used to it by the end of the day, but definitely needs improving.

I've searched the problems above on this Forum and and happy that there are enough of us experiencing them for it to become an issue for Ineos to rectify. I couldn't find anything on the Cooling Fan so will begin by checking the fuse (FL23 under seat) tomorrow.

The good

• Overall build quality seems solid. Great chunky doors with plenty of elbow resting space (especially after owning several Defenders/Series).
• Infotainment system worked well, Apple Car play all good and Siri also good.
• Seat comfortable, and 'foot rest' not an issue at all. I'm 185cm (6'1") and built like a rugby prop and didn't have any pressure points or sore joints after 9 hours in the seat.
• Power delivery is a bit slow, but then is linear, with gear changes almost imperceptible.
• 11.9 litres/ 100km, but a few good hills and only 200km on the odo at the start of the day.
• Visibility is good, the raised air intake cannot be seen at all behind the A pillar. A slight blind spot behind the B pillar meaning I had to lean forward at intersections to see traffic approaching from the right.
• Super happy with the Queens Red, it's darker in person, and can almost look black in certain light. Still amazed only 3% of total orders are in this colour.
• Dealers, Armstrongs Christchurch, have been very good.

What next?

Tomorrow it goes in for a ceramic protection coat, later in the week some window tints. Hopefully soon back to the dealer to sort the vibration and cooling issues, the wet feet can wait as will probably do the rubber slit fix (with dealer approval) and wait for the revised rubbers.

Add ons

I have bought a 'cut to size' rubber boot mat so the dogs dont slide around or get their paws caught in the tie-down track. (Supercheap Auto NZD$43)
Roof bars and feet from rhino rack (Legs RL210DS8, Bars Heavy Duty 1800mm black)

Very much happy with my purchase and no regrets, I have faith Ineos and the dealers will resolve the 'issues'.