Americas Less impressed after the test

[FlyingTexan]

Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS) from the UK brochure, which has been added to the new build IG! Click Here.
Therefore I agree no Adaptive Speed Control.

• Intelligent Speed Assistance
• Lane Departure Warning
• Automatic Emergency Braking
• Driver Drowsiness Detection

So to black and white this. Are the IGs arriving in the US right now equipped with this?

 

[Krabby]

So to black and white this. Are the IGs arriving in the US right now equipped with this?

Yes. CUSTOMER CARS. The demos, no.

 

[Rubicon Maybe]

unfortunately it does not appear that a blind spot mirror feature is not going to be available. Honestly thought that would be the one safety feature that would be included. It seems that it would be used far more often than the other four safety features being discussed.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Problem solved, next question?

 

[Rubicon Maybe]

View attachment 7834016
Problem solved, next question?

Yes, I fully understand how to use side view mirrors. But there are a large number of younger drivers who have grown up with blind spot mirrors. It should have been an easy addition and potentially more useful for a large number of people than intelligent speed assistance, etc

 

[ADVAW8S]

I am being sarcastic and having fun.

Maybe we all need to take a step back and appericate what we have and not what we don't have. It's not just IG people. I was on the Lexus site, a lurker and ppl are losing their minds that the new GX will be priced at 70k for base and 85k to 90k for top model. Same comments, the interior is to sparse, crappy this, not enough storage, no third row. I'm waiting for 4runner ppl to lose their kind when the low cost 4 runner comes out at price that costs 30k.

 

[AnD3rew]

I finally got the chance to test the Ineos Grenadier this week in Chicago, I drove a total of 8 hrs to check the truck. David, Julia and Billie were very friendly however their operation is like a day 1 in a startup - e.g. they didn’t have paint samples and none of the 2 colors trucks they had on hand were among the colors I was considering. Coming from a heavily modified LC200 and currently driving a Gen 3 Raptor I noticed quite a few minuses that made my think twice if I want to sell my Raptor to get the IG. I realize that prior vehicles, overall expectations and intended use will have significant impact on how one perceives the truck. I hope everyone who orders the truck gets to test it first since it might not be a great daily driver for many people on this side of the pond.

Things I disliked:

• Cabin Access: The design of the steps is a bit of a letdown, this was the biggest miss for me. They're fine for entering the vehicle but prove awkward when exiting. The absence of grab handles, particularly for the driver and rear passengers, is a notable omission, detracting from overall accessibility. I think cabin access will be even harder with 33s and rock rails. The only solution I can think it’s a rock slider with a larger plate like I had on my LC, a set of White Knuckle Offroad sliders with diamond plate.
• Driver Position: The ergonomic setup in the driver's seat feels off-kilter. The brake pedal's rightward position demands an uncomfortable twist of the body during longer stop lights. I only noticed this when I had to wait long at a stop.
• Rear Foot Room: The curved footwell in the back limits the space for your toes, could make long rides less comfortable. There was enough leg room in the back.
• Engine Performance: The engine, while adequate, doesn't deliver the punch I expected. I realize I got spoiled with the last 2 engines I had. This one felt more like my 2005 4Runner V8 after 200k miles.
• Interior Noise: The cabin is noisier than anticipated, especially after 60-65 mph.
• Rear Visibility: The design of the rear windows limits visibility for passengers, a factor that could affect the overall experience during scenic drives. Rear view is almost completely blocked by the spare tire but I was expecting this. If I get the truck I’ll probably try to add a new rearview mirror that is connected to a higher res camera.
• Blind Spot: The combination of small mirrors and a large B pillar creates a significant blind spot. A small convex mirror addition will probably mitigate this issue.
• Lack of USB Ports: A surprising miss in a modern vehicle, potentially rectifiable in future models or update or even pulling a cable from the back USB outlets.
• Camera and Screen Quality: The rear camera and infotainment screen are disappointingly inadequate, particularly in bright conditions. Screen glare is a significant issue, I’m wondering if a future after-market glass protector would reduce the glare. I have no idea why they selected such a low-res camera and allocated only a stamp-size portion of the screen to display.
• Low-Speed Wobble: The vehicle exhibits a noticeable wobble at low speeds, though it seems to stabilize on highways. I adjusted to the steering feel quickly but the truck appeared to wonder left and right at low speeds (20-30 mph).
• Parking Maneuverability: The vehicle's turning radius makes parking maneuvers, like backing into spots, challenging and will require a period of adjustment.

What I liked:

• Aesthetics: The overall look of the Grenadier is undeniably appealing, blending ruggedness with a certain elegance.
• Cabin Layout: The layout inside, barring the storage issue, is well-thought-out, though it can feel a bit cramped.
• Engine Bay Access: The ease of access to the engine bay is commendable, a stark contrast to many modern vehicles where routine checks can be a hassle.
• Split Door and Tire Position: The split door system is a practical touch, and while it affects rear visibility, it adds to the vehicle's utility.
• Utility Rails: The inclusion of utility rails inside and out is a thoughtful addition, I added similar tracks to the bed of the Raptor.
• Visibility for Off-Roading: The good visibility of the front corners is a boon, especially for off-roading, allowing precise placement of the wheels.
• Everything under the truck looked very beefy.
• The winch integration was really neat

Small wishlist:

• Adaptive Cruise Control: A feature that's becoming standard in many vehicles, it's surprising is missing on a truck in this price range.
• Blind spot monitor: I think this feature is coming in the MY2024.
• Brake Auto Hold: This would add a layer of convenience, particularly in stop-and-go traffic.
• Lift and Tires: A factory option for a 1.5” lift and 33s tires would be ideal, enhancing the vehicle’s off-road capabilities without compromising stability.
• Better rock sliders that can help with cabin access.

In spite of all the negatives identified I'm still keeping the reservation and wait for the reviews from N America that hopefully will come soon. If they fixed all the electrical gremlins I might end up getting this truck. Otherwise I'm worried about having to tow the truck 4 hours to the dealer and live with the shortcomings mentioned above. Hats off to those who took the risk of ordering right away before it was proven.


View attachment 7833948View attachment 7833949View attachment 7833951View attachment 7833952

Most of the valid stuff, like turning circle, rear visibility, camera quality etc has been well covered by others and should’nt really be a surprise if you have been around here. They are true, however I find I have already adapted to these and they don’t bother me on a daily basis.

The wobble, that isn’t normal and must be a problem with that vehicle.

Very few vehicles even have an option for sliders from factory most people go aftermarket and there are already options and no doubt more will emerge.

Same for lift and tyres, you can already get taller springs from the EOM manufacturer Eibach and 33 will fit even without it. Again this is usually aftermarket for most vehicles.

The USB is a well documented miss but look around here, plenty of solutions that are easy to implement and the power is already available in the footwells for whatever solution you come up with.

I love the driving position one if the best I have ever experienced but everyone’s body is different and so thats an individual thing.

Engine performance is again a personal thing. Americans are addicted to stupidly overpowered cars, butbin reality these things are as powerful as any 2.5-3 tonne brick has any right to be. My diesel is more than adequate for me.

On rear footroom, it’s true that you are a bit limited in being anble to push feet under the seat in front but I am 6’2” and have done several 2 hour stretches in the back seat and had no problems making myself comfortable.

 

[Gxgn]

If I had a Gen 3 Raptor I don't think I'd swap for a Grenadier unless I was really bored with it. That's an awesome vehicle in completely different ways, and the trails and back roads in the US are full size friendly.

I did take it this year in Moab, it did great on the easy trails but I didn’t dare to do Fins and Things although I’ve seen it done in a video. The truck is capable but I would be reluctant to take it on Imogene for example, very hard to squeeze by in the 2-way traffic. However, the 17 hrs drive to get to Moab were so smooth in the Raptor. Tough call, we‘ll see how the new batch that gets delivered soon is.

 

[MTNDOG]

View attachment 7834016
Problem solved, next question?

I believe that would probably last about 30 seconds on my mirror before my clumsy self managed to knock it off. I can hear my dad now, how in the hell did you manage to do that, followed by the mandatory head shake, disappointed look and turn to walk away.

 

[FlyingTexan]

I am being sarcastic and having fun.

Maybe we all need to take a step back and appericate what we have and not what we don't have. It's not just IG people. I was on the Lexus site, a lurker and ppl are losing their minds that the new GX will be priced at 70k for base and 85k to 90k for top model. Same comments, the interior is to sparse, crappy this, not enough storage, no third row. I'm waiting for 4runner ppl to lose their kind when the low cost 4 runner comes out at price that costs 30k.

They leaked the pricing from a dealer and the overtrail+ is $76k

 

[trobex]

There are many obvious issues the Gren design team could have addressed early on in particular the cabin arrangements, intrusions, water ingress problems, tilt and reach etc etc. But aside from these, the vehicle drive train and general external arrangements are very good IMO as the vehicle was never suggested to be a luxury drive, but, a workhorse with some comforts.

I think the level of comfort intent is very well balanced with the high quality chassis and drive line. Albeit, the execution of the comfort items is a little poor among some other things.

I have driven the New Gen Raptor V6T and Ute V6D, these are very user refined vehicles which in my opinion side on the upper level of family comfort over their practical work use. For example I would never buy a 5 seat style side ute for construction/civil works - those that do are pretending.

Flip side, the Gren sits in the same field really as the 200/300/Y62 series but again in my view the Gren is far more practical for towing, off road use.

 

[James]

Most of the valid stuff, like turning circle, rear visibility, camera quality etc has been well covered by others and should’nt really be a surprise if you have been around here. They are true, however I find I have already adapted to these and they don’t bother me on a daily basis.

The wobble, that isn’t normal and must be a problem with that vehicle.

Very few vehicles even have an option for sliders from factory most people go aftermarket and there are already options and no doubt more will emerge.

Same for lift and tyres, you can already get taller springs from the EOM manufacturer Eibach and 33 will fit even without it. Again this is usually aftermarket for most vehicles.

The USB is a well documented miss but look around here, plenty of solutions that are easy to implement and the power is already available in the footwells for whatever solution you come up with.

I love the driving position one if the best I have ever experienced but everyone’s body is different and so thats an individual thing.

Engine performance is again a personal thing. Americans are addicted to stupidly overpowered cars, butbin reality these things are as powerful as any 2.5-3 tonne brick has any right to be. My diesel is more than adequate for me.

On rear footroom, it’s true that you are a bit limited in being anble to push feet under the seat in front but I am 6’2” and have done several 2 hour stretches in the back seat and had no problems making myself comfortable.

Is it just the world today, that means instead of people saying “I drove it which I really been wanting to do, and overall it didn't suit me” there needs to be a long list of why the thing is defective, or all the mistakes Inoes made, because it doesn't suit that individual? Some people buy and love it, and still need to keep repeating what they think are mistakes or errors over and over, like its a public service.

Maybe this is part of a world where we’re all asked to review everything; or give an opinion and make judgements public about absolutely everything. Making content out of what used to be an internal thought process.

Of course all our impressions can be interesting to a degree, and on this forum they are often shared in a fantastic and respectful way, but it does feel like sometimes personal perspective is being lost in the wash, not just over Grenadiers, but everything. So much youtubing of people with little idea sharing quick impressions as it ifs meaningful, or entertaining. Let’s get in our grenadiers, and live a little, out there in reality!

 

[MTNDOG]

Is it just the world today, that means instead of people saying “I drove it which I really been wanting to do, and overall it didn't suit me” there needs to be a long list of why the thing is defective, or all the mistakes Inoes made, because it doesn't suit that individual? Some people buy and love it, and still need to keep repeating what they think are mistakes or errors over and over, like its a public service.

Maybe this is part of a world where we’re all asked to review everything; or give an opinion and make judgements public about absolutely everything. Making content out of what used to be an internal thought process.

Of course all our impressions can be interesting to a degree, and on this forum they are often shared in a fantastic and respectful way, but it does feel like sometimes personal perspective is being lost in the wash, not just over Grenadiers, but everything. So much youtubing of people with little idea sharing quick impressions as it ifs meaningful, or entertaining. Let’s get in our grenadiers, and live a little, out there in reality!

I will say, I really appreciate Gxgn's review as well as everyone's driving impression on this forum. I'm in a very similar situation, currently driving a F150 Supercrew long box 4x4, so not as exciting as a Raptor, but similar as far as its ability to eat interstate miles without breaking a sweat pulling a trailer or hauling the family. I am 8+ hours of round trip driving just for a test drive as well and what happens if it needs warranty work or if it becomes disabled and needs a tow to the dealer. One piece of my life I can't make more of is time, will the Grenadier be a positive or negative use of time, who knows. When I do finally get over to Seattle for a test drive, his observations can be tested and checked off the list during my drive. Do I think it will be a worse experience than the 73 Toyota 2 wheel drive pickup or the 1980 salvage title Honda Civic that got me thru high school, I doubt it. Will it be more interesting to drive than my wife's Subaru Ascent, absolutely. The leaked pricing of the GX550 Overtrail + definitely adds another option to consider and the new Defender is still a novelty in my area. So thanks Gxgn for the review and the insight as I will use this info when I go to check the Grenadier out.

 

[Gxgn]

Is it just the world today, that means instead of people saying “I drove it which I really been wanting to do, and overall it didn't suit me” there needs to be a long list of why the thing is defective, or all the mistakes Inoes made, because it doesn't suit that individual? Some people buy and love it, and still need to keep repeating what they think are mistakes or errors over and over, like its a public service.

Maybe this is part of a world where we’re all asked to review everything; or give an opinion and make judgements public about absolutely everything. Making content out of what used to be an internal thought process.

Of course all our impressions can be interesting to a degree, and on this forum they are often shared in a fantastic and respectful way, but it does feel like sometimes personal perspective is being lost in the wash, not just over Grenadiers, but everything. So much youtubing of people with little idea sharing quick impressions as it ifs meaningful, or entertaining. Let’s get in our grenadiers, and live a little, out there in reality!

James, I don’t think you profiled me correctly. I’m usually very silent on the forums I visit, learning about a topic of interest and if anything I could be accused of not contributing enough. No, I’m not an influencer nor am I someone who would easily take a day off to do 500 miles to test a truck. I spent a fair amount of time on the Raptor forum before deciding to buy one and I can tell you the amount and severity of the issues that were usually discussed were minor compared to what I see on this forum.

My intent was to let some others that are on the fence know it’s not all rosy with the IG and one should think carefully of a switch if they currently drive something that is more comfortable, more reliable etc. as I mentioned I‘m still considering the IG, I’ll just have to decide later if it’s the best move for me.

I’m also surprised to see such a strong following base of fans who are willing to order an expensive truck despite water flooding in and out when it rains, questionable driving position and dynamics, service network that is 8 hrs away and other potential shortcomings. I realize no car is perfect but I hoped that after over 1 million miles of test drives they figured out most of the bugs.

 

[TrukSnave]

I bought a Gen3 Raptor in October 2021. It was really great but a year later when I started to see others on the road…it just wasn’t special to me anymore. I’m buying the Grenadier regardless of any shortcoming's and I hope I rarely see others in the wild

 

[[ Adam ]]

James, I don’t think you profiled me correctly. I’m usually very silent on the forums I visit, learning about a topic of interest and if anything I could be accused of not contributing enough. No, I’m not an influencer nor am I someone who would easily take a day off to do 500 miles to test a truck. I spent a fair amount of time on the Raptor forum before deciding to buy one and I can tell you the amount and severity of the issues that were usually discussed were minor compared to what I see on this forum.

My intent was to let some others that are on the fence know it’s not all rosy with the IG and one should think carefully of a switch if they currently drive something that is more comfortable, more reliable etc. as I mentioned I‘m still considering the IG, I’ll just have to decide later if it’s the best move for me.

I’m also surprised to see such a strong following base of fans who are willing to order an expensive truck despite water flooding in and out when it rains, questionable driving position and dynamics, service network that is 8 hrs away and other potential shortcomings. I realize no car is perfect but I hoped that after over 1 million miles of test drives they figured out most of the bugs.

I don't agree with all of your findings, but I appreciate your contribution.

My kid is on his way to college in six months - I'm not worried about the second row space, his being accustomed to blind spot warning, or (as noted in another thread) child locks on the windows.

But I'm big enough to accept that it's not perfect, and acknowledge that perspectives like yours are just as valuable as any other, subscriber count or not.

 

[Regalz]

Baja una piedra.

What part of Baja? MM is the perfect color for Baja!

 

[[ Adam ]]

What part of Baja? MM is the perfect color for Baja!

Um, he said under a rock.

 

[Regalz]

Um, he said under a rock.

Lots of rocks in Baja, I was hoping to narrow it down

 

[AngusMacG]

James, I don’t think you profiled me correctly. I’m usually very silent on the forums I visit, learning about a topic of interest and if anything I could be accused of not contributing enough. No, I’m not an influencer nor am I someone who would easily take a day off to do 500 miles to test a truck. I spent a fair amount of time on the Raptor forum before deciding to buy one and I can tell you the amount and severity of the issues that were usually discussed were minor compared to what I see on this forum.

My intent was to let some others that are on the fence know it’s not all rosy with the IG and one should think carefully of a switch if they currently drive something that is more comfortable, more reliable etc. as I mentioned I‘m still considering the IG, I’ll just have to decide later if it’s the best move for me.

I’m also surprised to see such a strong following base of fans who are willing to order an expensive truck despite water flooding in and out when it rains, questionable driving position and dynamics, service network that is 8 hrs away and other potential shortcomings. I realize no car is perfect but I hoped that after over 1 million miles of test drives they figured out most of the bugs.

I just find it odd that you come on a forum dedicated to a specific vehicle and offer up your opinion, which is fine, but you are judgy in the language you use (i.e “fans who are willing to order an expensive truck despite water flooding in and out when it rains, questionable driving position and dynamics, service network that is 8 hrs away and other potential shortcomings“). That to me just makes your opinion of no value to me. You are basically calling everyone that buys a Grenadier a moron/idiot.

If you had not included the last paragraph I’d actually have respect for your viewpoint.