I’ve glanced through this thread and its very concerning for me/family. We have three preorder (US) that are likely on the way or maybe stateside. I understand it’s a first year coupled with new brand but It’s sounding like waiting and kicking this can down the road might be a better fit for us. Myself (and kids) are coming from very reliable brands and the IG sounds like it’s great for an enthusiast rock crawler but 98% of our driving is on the streets or dirt roads so MPG, steering, fit/finish, safety, reliability and customer service are more important than conquering a trail. I know….it’s personal.
Is there a list of issues compiled someplace? If we move forward I’d love to have a checklist if we move forward to review before accepting the car.
Conflicted
Hi Roach,
The Grenadier - assuming it is free of problems - will be a great overlander, but it is not set-up from the factory to be a rock crawler. It comes with 31.6 inch tires, and the ground clearance is too low for "rock-crawling" (at least based on Colorado & Utah trails). The Grenadier will be fine on trails up to a 5 or 6 on the OnX scale (1-10), but after that, its clearance will be a problem. Up-sizing tires to 33" is do-able, but you may get rubbing at full-flex. For rock-crawling, I'd want a suspension lift even with 33s to avoid rubbing, and to add some clearance for the undercarriage (a suspension lift does not add clearance under the diffs - only larger tires will increase clearance under the diffs). The problem with a suspension lift is the length of the control arms (see #1 below). In addition, a 33" tire will fit on the spare location (just). Up-sizing beyond that in the Grenadier will be challenging for the following reasons:
1 - The control arms are short, and as you go up in tire size and/or suspension lift, the angle of the control arm gets too steep, and the driving dynamics are ruined. I have decades of experience driving lifted vehicles on larger tires. There is no way I would drive a Grenadier, lifted, on 35s, with the stock control arms. If you go to 35s, you will need to either (1) add a drop bracket and continue to use the stock control arms (a drop bracket lowers the attachment point for the control arm at the frame, and reduces the angle), or (2) you will need a long-arm kit - which involves cutting off the old brackets from the frame, and welding on new brackets (further aft for the front control arms, and further forward for the rear control arms - to accommodate the longer arms). If you lift the vehicle, and do a long-arm kit, you will need custom drive shafts, which will be a little longer than stock. To my knowledge, there is no long-arm kit for the Grenadier - not yet, anyway. A suspension lift and a long-arm kit will likely run $10,000 - $14,000, depending on options (should one become available). See these Jeep long-arm kits for comparison (they are for people who want to run 37s and have maximum wheel-travel off-road, and really good handling on-road, or for people who want to run 40s):
https://evomfg.com/collections/long-arm-suspension-systems
2 - As of yet, there are no after-market gears for the Carraro axles. The B57 (diesel) is a torquey engine, and you can certainly get away without re-gearing with a 33-inch tire. The B58 (gas engine), which is the only one available here in the United States, generates a max torque of 332 lb/ft, and that comes on pretty low in the rpms due to the forced induction - which is good. Torque down low helps to get bigger tires moving. But if you go up past a 33" tire, re-gearing the axles is necessary to keep the factory ratio in place. Ideally with the B58, you would probably run 4.30 gears with 33-inch tires, and 4.56 gears with 35-inch tires. Maybe you can get away without re-gearing for 33s, and maybe 4.30 is a better gear for 35s - I don't know yet. Personally, I hate driving vehicles on larger tires without re-gearing. Its not how the power-train was designed to run, and the loss of power annoys me (but that's me).
3 - As mentioned previously, nothing larger than a 33 will fit on the stock spare location, so you will need to figure out how to carry a spare if you go to a 35. There are tire carriers that can mount in the rear tow hitch (they are not super-expensive). Pretty soon, I would guess, there will be an aftermarket bumper with a tire-carrier, which will be much more stable than a hitch mounted spare, but those bumper-tire carrier kits generally run around $3,000 (price may or may not be relevant to you).
Someone posted a picture of a Grenadier on 37-inch tires, built by some aftermarket company. Its easy to put a vehicle on larger tires, its harder to do it right.
If you are in the market for a solidly built overlander, that can handle moderate rocks, the Grenadier should be fine. If you want a rock-crawler, I'd suggest a Jeep. Jeep has the solution for every issue I outlined above. The Wrangler can be bought - from the factory - on 35-inch tires, with correct gearing installed from the factory, with proper length control arms, and with a full-size spare mounted in the stock location. If you want to go to a 37, there are dozens of well-established, quality aftermarket companies that have experience setting the Jeep up to run properly on that big tire.
