NATO Plug,Socket

rovie said:

@AnD3rew Do you also use the IWISS IWD-16 tool for the Deutsch plugs?

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Sorry don’t know what that is. I have a Rhino Deutsche crimp tool I will use for the Deutsche plugs. I used an Anderson crimp tool for the Anderson plugs.

AnD3rew said:

Sorry don’t know what that is. I have a Rhino Deutsche crimp tool I will use for the Deutsche plugs. I used an Anderson crimp tool for the Anderson plugs.

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Thank you for the feedback.
It is comparable. My tool can be used for 14, 16 & 18 gage closed terminals contact size 16.

Since I certainly won't be crimping that often, I got this one. From what I have heard, the quality is more than adequate for non-industrial use.

AnD3rew said:

Just made my first projects. NATO with long lead and 175amp Anderson plug. Will mate with my Jumper leads with 175amp Anderson plug. So can use for jumping and also have a 175amp to standard Anderson plug so can just be used for an extension cord. Also a short NATO to standard Anderson for trailer power and compressor etc. Just waiting for my Deutsche DTP plugs to arrive and will make some various adapters etc for those. Probably Deutsche to Anderson, and Deutsche to cigarette sockets etc.
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Looks good, one small suggestion, wrap some high quality tape around the wires near the plug sockets, to minimise vibration on the wire/lug crimp.

TheDocAUS said:

Looks good, one small suggestion, wrap some high quality tape around the wires near the plug sockets, to minimise vibration on the wire/lug crimp.

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Thanks, i was actually planning to use some small cable ties to keep the wires together, but you think I should wrap tape around the plug and wires is that right?

First around the cables where they enter the plugs, to reduce vibration into the crimp. Then you can wrap around the plug if you wish.

TheDocAUS said:

First around the cables where they enter the plugs, to reduce vibration into the crimp. Then you can wrap around the plug if you wish.

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Nice thanks will do.

frankkk said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Anderson was originally a product for industrial applications and was only later adapted by enthusiasts for automotive use..?

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In the USA I typically only see Anderson plugs on forklift battery packs & charger leads.

AnD3rew said:

Just made my first projects. NATO with long lead and 175amp Anderson plug. Will mate with my Jumper leads with 175amp Anderson plug. So can use for jumping and also have a 175amp to standard Anderson plug so can just be used for an extension cord. Also a short NATO to standard Anderson for trailer power and compressor etc. Just waiting for my Deutsche DTP plugs to arrive and will make some various adapters etc for those. Probably Deutsche to Anderson, and Deutsche to cigarette sockets etc.
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do you have power at the nato socket Andrew some are saying they dont and are awaiting software upgrade ?

beg said:

do you have power at the nato socket Andrew some are saying they dont and are awaiting software upgrade ?

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I don’t have my vehicle yet. It’s currently floating in the English Channel. But sounds long like it is powered conditionally based on feedback from those who do have

Tom109 said:

In the USA I typically only see Anderson plugs on forklift battery packs & charger leads.

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Pretty much all campers and caravans on Australia connect via Anderson. Most in the 4wd world here also use for multiple other purposes. My fridges have Anderson connectors, my compressor has Anderson etc

TheDocAUS said:

Australian update: NATO to Anderson adapter

I have had an Australian Co contact me to work on a solution. I have also contacted my INEOS Dealer to get involved (they are interested). Sorry to be vague, but this only happened yesterday and we are working on details and a NATO to Anderson adapter to test.

They are also working on a Deutsch DTP plug kit customised for INEOS users (I will post info to the Deutsch DTP thread in due course). The CEO asked for some feedback recently so I gave it and the Co. followed up on both matters!

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Thanks for getting this together! Any news/updates on the NATO to Anderson adaptor from CTALS and when it might be available for purchase?

CTALS have gone quite, so I suspect they may be having some issues or concerns, like an adapter from 350 amps NATO down to an Anderson 50 amps. The prototype I saw was not fused. This would be understandable because they cannot control how a person uses the adapter. It is open for misuse. It is an issue that INEOS has not fully thought through for Australia.

TheDocAUS said:

CTALS have gone quite, so I suspect they may be having some issues or concerns, like an adapter from 350 amps NATO down to an Anderson 50 amps. The prototype I saw was not fused. This would be understandable because they cannot control how a person uses the adapter. It is open for misuse. It is an issue that INEOS has not fully thoguht through for Australia.

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Makes me wonder if making my own adaptor like AnD3rew has on post #139, will actually work then?

It should work, but remember a 350 amp NATO circuit going into a 50 amp Anderson plug.

I am thinking I will run a separate 50 amp Anderson circuit from the main battery, and leave the NATO circuit as is.

AnD3rew said:

Just made my first projects. NATO with long lead and 175amp Anderson plug. Will mate with my Jumper leads with 175amp Anderson plug. So can use for jumping and also have a 175amp to standard Anderson plug so can just be used for an extension cord. Also a short NATO to standard Anderson for trailer power and compressor etc. Just waiting for my Deutsche DTP plugs to arrive and will make some various adapters etc for those. Probably Deutsche to Anderson, and Deutsche to cigarette sockets etc.
View attachment 7814518

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Thanks for sharing! Thinking of doing the same if CTALS doesn't release their NATO to Anderson adaptor before I take delivery of my vehicle.

Can you confirm if your home made NATO to Anderson adaptor works when supplying power to your trailer/ caravan? That is, is there power at the NATO socket and does use of your adaptor cause any issues onboard the Grenadiers computer system?

TheDocAUS said:

It should work, but remember a 350 amp NATO circuit going into a 50 amp Anderson plug.

I am thinking I will run a separate 50 amp Anderson circuit from the main battery, and leave the NATO cirucit as is.

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What sort of issue do you think going from 350A NATO to 50A Anderson will cause? If one is just using the NATO plug to supply power to a caravan (via a NATO to Anderson adaptor) with say a 40A DCDC charger, then wouldn't the max draw from the NATO only be 40A or there abouts, and be well within it's 350A limit?

I'll jump in here..
I have been working on this over the past couple of days with CT-ALS.
There are two problems to solve here: electrical and mechanical.

Electrical.
It doesn't matter how much power users propose to use for their trailer, van or camper. The NATO socket circuit is capable of delivering up to 350A as per the installed ZCase fuse. CT-ALS cannot predict what users will try to do with an adapter that could deliver up to 350A via a 50A Anderson plug. That's brown smoke territory. The adapter would need to be fused at a maximum of 50A. That's not easy to do inline while keeping the adapter in a neat and short package to hang off the back of your Grenadier.

Mechanical.
The smallest NATO plug contacts are made for 35mm2 2AWG cable. The largest cable and contacts useable with a 50A Anderson is 6AWG. The wire pocket in the back of a 35mm2 contact is 9.1mm diameter. 6AWG wire is 4.7mm diameter (plus 1mm for the insulation). That's a ~4.4mm gap to crimp or fill with solder. It's not a good fit and CT-ALS cannot support it to sell it. The back of the NATO plug has a grommet that is supposed to seal around the 2AWG wire insulation. 6AWG is too small to seal so another solution is required, like potting or a sealant.

So CT-ALS cannot sell an assembled adapter because they can't control the end use.

I see AnD3rew stepped down the wire sizes on his adapter from 2AWG to 6AWG mid-run. That's fine for his own use. After some mental to-and- fro'ing, I am proceeding with an adapter. I will make some copper sleeves to take up the gap inside some 50mm2 NATO contacts (10.7mm ID) and solder as an assembly then use 6AWG to a 50A Anderson. I will pot seal the back of the plug to close it.

First thing though; I will replace the 350A ZCase M8 stud fuse with a 60A fuse to protect the circuit and my equipment from having a very bad day. I am using the socket for a 20A DC-DC charger (D250S) in my camper, and may use it for my portable compressor which can draw up to 45A on restart. There isn't a 50A ZCase fuse.

PS: Yes, this is likely the hardest and most expensive way to get power to my camper but I was determined to use the NATO socket that was supplied!
PPS: I don't have the winch option so my NATO socket was DOA. I have run a new wire from the ignition-switched feed of the 45A under-seat outlet to the coil of the NATO relay to close the relay and put power to the NATO socket when the ignition is on. Solved.

Clark Kent said:

I'll jump in here..
I have been working on this over the past couple of days with CT-ALS.
There are two problems to solve here: electrical and mechanical.

Electrical.
It doesn't matter how much power users propose to use for their trailer, van or camper. The NATO socket circuit is capable of delivering up to 350A as per the installed ZCase fuse. CT-ALS cannot predict what users will try to do with an adapter that could deliver up to 350A via a 50A Anderson plug. That's brown smoke territory. The adapter would need to be fused at a maximum of 50A. That's not easy to do inline while keeping the adapter in a neat and short package to hang off the back of your Grenadier.

Mechanical.
The smallest NATO plug contacts are made for 35mm2 2AWG cable. The largest cable and contacts useable with a 50A Anderson is 6AWG. The wire pocket in the back of 35mm2 contact is 9.1mm diameter. 6AWG wire is 4.7mm diameter (plus 1mm for the insulation). That's a ~4.4mm gap to crimp or fill with solder. It's not a good fit and CT-ALS cannot support it to sell it. The back of the NATO plug has a grommet that is supposed to seal around the 2AWG wire insulation. 6AWG is too small to seal so another solution is required, like potting or a sealant.

So CT-ALS cannot sell an assembled adapter because they can't control the end use.

I see Andrew stepped down the wire sizes on his adapter from 2AWG to 6AWG mid-run. That's fine for his own use. After some mental to-and- fro'ing, I am proceeding with an adapter. I will make some copper sleeves to take up the gap inside some 50mm2 NATO contacts (10.7mm ID) and solder as an assembly then use 6AWG to a 50A Anderson. I will pot seal the back of the plug to close it.

First thing though; I will replace the 350A ZCase M8 stud fuse with a 60A fuse to protect the circuit and my equipment from having a very bad day. I am using the socket for a 20A DC-DC charger (D250S) in my camper, and may use it for my portable compressor which can draw up to 45A on restart.

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Thanks for the thorough explanation...makes sense.

Hmmm, it's back to the drawing board.

Clark Kent said:

PS: Yes, this is likely the hardest and most expensive way to get power to my camper but I was determined to use the NATO socket that was supplied!

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I can share that sentiment.

Clark Kent said:

PPS: I don't have the winch option so my NATO socket was DOA. I have run a new wire from the ignition-switched feed of the 45A under-seat outlet to the coil of the NATO relay to close the relay and put power to the NATO socket when the ignition is on. Solved.

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How have you actually terminated that at the coil end?

DCPU said:

I can share that sentiment.

How have you actually terminated that at the coil end?

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The relay coil terminals are standard spades. The green wire, shown unplugged below, is the +12V signal to pull in the relay, provided:

• the 500A overhead switch is set;
• the transmission is in neutral (etc);
• a front winch is fitted;
• there is a waning moon over a rising tide; and
• you're parked on your own driveway.

Those simple rules aside, the relay will happily activate anytime +12V is applied to that spade terminal and that can be achieved without Ineos' permission (shhh).
For now I have gone for ignition-activation via the spare 40A (fused) circuit under the seat. When (if) Ineos address the dead-NATO-socket-without-a-winch-fitted issue, I just need to plug the green wire back in.

A manual switch between the hot side of the relay (the 2AWG cable on the left) and the spade terminal would also work but the downside of a switch is remembering to use it. A VSR (Voltage Sensitive Relay) inline with the switch would let me turn on the NATO socket when I want to use it and it will turn off automatically to protect the battery after the vehicle was turned off. If I want to use the NATO socket and the battery voltage is less than the VSR cutoff then I must have the engine running. Not a bad result.
Choices!