Auxiliary LEDs - Lightbars, Lights, Pods

evomind · Jul 11, 2023

I had roof mounted lights on a truck and the glare off the hood was terrible.
The paint was metallic so maybe that had something to do with it, idk.
I thought about ordering the roof bars with the light bar, but Im afraid the wind noise will become bothersome.
How good are the center lights on the Grenadier?

anand · Jul 11, 2023

evomind said:
How good are the center lights on the Grenadier?

Very good

TheDocAUS · Jul 11, 2023

Jonathan Hanson said:
Ah, I understand now, combined speed. Still, that was a horrific accident. It looks like the Patrol did exactly what it was supposed to do and sacrificed itself for you. Glad you survived.

Exactly correct. The Toyota Troop Carrier just broke, had no airbag (1991model) and the steel bullbar just disintegrated. I had an airbag, the plastic bullbar did its job and the car crumpled - all absorbing the massive forces at play. In a two car headon you add the speed of each vehicle to work out the forces.

AnD3rew · Jul 11, 2023

TheDocAUS said:
Exactly correct. The Toyota Troop Carrier just broke, had no airbag (1991model) and the steel bullbar just disintegrated. I had an airbag, the plastic bullbar did its job and the car crumpled - all absorbing the massive forces at play. In a two car headon you add the speed of each vehicle to work out the forces.

I don’t think it works like that. An accident involving two vehicles travelling at 100kph is equivalent (at a theoretical level anyway) to one vehicle travelling at 100kph hitting a stationary object. So you can’t just add them together, there will be some variability based on the differential speed and mass and deformability of the two vehicles, but on a theoretical level they are the same. This takes nothing away from the severity of your accident, crashing into a stationary object at 100kph is a severe accident in anyone’s books.

DenisM · Jul 11, 2023

AnD3rew said:
I don’t think it works like that. An accident involving two vehicles travelling at 100kph is equivalent (at a theoretical level anyway) to one vehicle travelling at 100kph hitting a stationary object. So you can’t just add them together, there will be some variability based on the differential speed and mass and deformability of the two vehicles, but on a theoretical level they are the same. This takes nothing away from the severity of your accident, crashing into a stationary object at 100kph is a severe accident in anyone’s books.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0F5GudspM
not for the faint hearted....

AnD3rew · Jul 11, 2023

DenisM said:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0F5GudspM
not for the faint hearted....

Yep. Uncharacteristically Jamie got his initial assumption wrong.

TheDocAUS · Jul 11, 2023

AnD3rew said:
I don’t think it works like that. An accident involving two vehicles travelling at 100kph is equivalent (at a theoretical level anyway) to one vehicle travelling at 100kph hitting a stationary object. So you can’t just add them together, there will be some variability based on the differential speed and mass and deformability of the two vehicles, but on a theoretical level they are the same. This takes nothing away from the severity of your accident, crashing into a stationary object at 100kph is a severe accident in anyone’s books.

It was terminology used by the ambos and Doctors from the time of the crash until discharge from the hospital. My GP knew it also when I mentioned it. Anything above 60kph is considered by hospitals in Australia to be a high speed accident. At the time I was more intrested in getting pain relief from all the broken bones and soft tissue damage.

AnD3rew · Jul 11, 2023

TheDocAUS said:
It was terminology used by the ambos and Doctors from the time of the crash until discharge from the hospital. My GP knew it also when I mentioned it. Anything above 60kph is considered by hospitals in Australia to be a high speed accident. At the time I was more intrested in getting pain relief from all the broken bones and soft tissue damage.

There is no doubt it was a high speed accident and you were very lucky to be able to get away with it, and yes totally understandable that it wasn’t your primary concern. The ambos and docs are wrong though and it is one that is often gotten wrong even by people who should know better.

Jiman01 · Jul 11, 2023

Tom109 said:
Thanks for all the responses.

I have also never driven in a lightbar-equipped vehicle, but I have paid close attention to their growing popularity in my area - almost every pickup and jeep seem to have them. When I do see them in actual use or get to follow one, they appear intensely bright but do not seem to provide useful light (more a huge sphere of brightness). So my guess is these could just be the budget brands?

You’re probably right about the budget brand theory. They could also be street legal ”driving lights” as well. When I last researched Baja Designs there were two kinds of bars, one kind that were designed as driving lights, which were street legal, and a second off-road oriented lights with lots of throw.

I ended up getting the driving version and tapped it into my high beams. I had an upfitter switch that turned it on so that whenever I hit the high beams the bar would come on along with the normal headlight high beams. If I didn’t want to use the bar, I’d just leave the switch off and only the headlights would go to high beams.

AWo · Jul 11, 2023

TheDocAUS said:
Quality matters
Quality brands take care in choosing high end LEDs, properly sealing the unit, supply a good wiring kit and getting colour temp consistent.

On the INEOS I will use a 20 inch Lightforce LED Viper bar, installed on the bumper under my Roo Bar. Plus some camping lights on the roof rack.

Proper sealing is one part of quality. Another is, that either a female connector is used in the light housing to prevent water entering the light through a cable or a cable with a sealed connector. If the cable has open wire ends a bad crimped connector (or even no connector) will let water in trough capillary flow. If the cable has a connector already, use that one, also fine.

The next qualitiy thing is, if the housing is only powder coated or more. Powder coated lights won't survive long in some European countries due to salt on the streets (unknown to many countries where lights are manufactured and then exported to Europe). Better use housings which have two protectiony layers, one is anodizing and the other powder coating.

Another quality factor, which also has to do with powder coating is to prevent sharp edges (at the coolig fins, for example), as powder coating is even more thin there (in German it is called "Kantenflucht", that means that the powder "runs away" from sharp edges, leaving the powder layer thinner and more vulnerable than in other areas). If the sealing is on the powder coating, a good sealing doesn't help, as water crawls between the coating and the housing starting at damaged coating. Thereby it also crawls under the sealing. Better is to have the sealing on the housing and then put the powder coating on (which is of course more expensive).

A very important thing is, that the manufacturer uses a really high quality polycarbonate. All front lights use polycarbonate, which is far more rigid than acryl glass (which is used on the side and in the rear), but it has a major drawback if not the best quality is used. Polycarbonate discolors (stain) to yellow and tends to show small cracks. Good polycarbonate keeps its glass clear and white for many years. I already saw well known end consumer products, which only last two years until they needed to be exchanged due to cracks and yellow glass.

AWo

MrMike · Jul 12, 2023

AnD3rew said:
There is no doubt it was a high speed accident and you were very lucky to be able to get away with it, and yes totally understandable that it wasn’t your primary concern. The ambos and docs are wrong though and it is one that is often gotten wrong even by people who should know better.

The difference is, the wall is a solid object the other (vehicle) is not. The G forces are then different. As we say. it's not the speed itself that is dangerous it's the rate of which you stop.

AnD3rew · Jul 12, 2023

MrMike said:
The difference is, the wall is a solid object the other (vehicle) is not. The G forces are then different. As we say. it's not the speed itself that is dangerous it's the rate of which you stop.

As I said, there will be differences in the final forces based on the differential weights/mass of the vehicles and the way in which they deform etc. so yes not exactly the same as a wall. But the point is that you can’t add the speeds of the two vehicles together. A head on between two vehicles doing 100kph is not equivalent to one vehicle doing 200kph.

grenadierboy · Jul 12, 2023

TheDocAUS said:
In Australia popular brands of LED lights include (in no order);

Lightforce;

ARB;

Great White; and

STEDI.

I have used Lightforce and Great White in the remote Outback for over a decade without any issues. They did not manage to survive a high speed head on collision though (but the Great White was in good shape) !

I know Lightforce and ARB are available in the US market, not sure about the other two.

LED bars are very good at flood light, less so for spot light at great distance. I used a combo consisting of an LED bar and two spot lights to great effect. Quality LED bars are amazing if you match them to your needs.

Spill light
Because of the amount of light output, I would not install an LED bar on my roof rack facing forwards, but happy to have it on the front front bumper or Roo Bar. I do not want flood fill light falling on my white bonnet at night.

Colour temp
You should also check the colour temperature of any LED you choose, it impacts eye fatigue.

Quality matters
Quality brands take care in choosing high end LEDs, properly sealing the unit, supply a good wiring kit and getting colour temp consistent.

On the INEOS I will use a 20 inch Lightforce LED Viper bar, installed on the bumper under my Roo Bar. Plus some camping lights on the roof rack.

Michael.

Re: the positioning of Lightforce LED bar - do you think it would be better in the top or bottom position or no real difference?

Miki · Jul 12, 2023

Not sure of the lamps output angle but I would think higher up would offer more spread, so for me, the top.

bigleonski · Jul 12, 2023

Miki said:
Not sure of the lamps output angle but I would think higher up would offer more spread, so for me, the top.

And allow for a slightly larger bar.

Tom109 · Jul 27, 2023

Anyone know the width/length of the Ineos-supplied lighbar? I believe it is specific to the width of the longitudinal roof rack bar spacing. I'm looking at alternatives...

Pat-Ard · Jul 27, 2023

What about this: https://blacksheep-innovations.shop/LED-Bar-ultra-low-Ineos-Grenadier/IG-LED-D1

Tom109 · Jul 27, 2023

Pat-Ard said:
What about this: https://blacksheep-innovations.shop/LED-Bar-ultra-low-Ineos-Grenadier/IG-LED-D1

Looks to exceed my budget. My preliminary considerations are (4) Baja Designs round LED, or (1) Stedi dual-row lightbar. Just need to determine which lightbar length. A lighbar seems a better option to stay within the 25A rating of the switched forward-right roof electrical connection. This may all go out the window if I can isolate that roof connector as a solar input.

anand · Jul 27, 2023

Pat-Ard said:
What about this: https://blacksheep-innovations.shop/LED-Bar-ultra-low-Ineos-Grenadier/IG-LED-D1

$1700USD for only 5600 lumens?!

zzeuzz · Jul 28, 2023

my ideal solution for extra light would be remove the original "spot" lights and put a 4 inch better led inside this.

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Auxiliary LEDs - Lightbars, Lights, Pods

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Inch deep and a mile wide.

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Inch deep and a mile wide.

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Inch deep and a mile wide.

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Inch deep and a mile wide.

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