Black Sheep Inovations

TheDocAUS · Apr 25, 2023

grenadierboy said:
So Mike - this Rhino rack has been specifically developed for the Grenadier but do we know what the specific changes Rhino made for the Grenadier rack?

The size of the roof rack was customised to the IG's roof size, using a pro forma style used for the Pioneer Platform on many different cars. So if looks bascially the same as the one on my Patrol, but just bigger.

The attachment points are different to many other models of the Pioneer Platform. My Nissan Patrol had 6 attachment points, the IG has 8. Also the style and shape of the IG attachment points is different from many other models I have seen. I noticed that straight away, but I like the new style on the IG.

Tazzieman · Apr 25, 2023

DaveB said:
The legs are huge and ugly

You'll get cancelled for saying things that hurtful

Pat-Ard · Apr 26, 2023

I asked BSI after the dynamic load of the platform. They said 100kg for each platform…

DaveB · Apr 26, 2023

Pat-Ard said:
I asked BSI after the dynamic load of the platform. They said 100kg for each platform…

In that case Frontrunner has now moved into second place for me and Black Sheep has hit the lead

MrMike · Apr 26, 2023

DaveB said:
to be sold in Australia it will need to meet A

DaveB said:

to be sold in Australia it will need to meet ADR's

Click to expand...

I understand that, but IMO it's not the strongest way to attach a rack to a vehicle.

ADVAW8S · Apr 26, 2023

DaveB said:
In that case Frontrunner has now moved into second place for me and Black Sheep has hit the lead

I agree, I am thinking hard about BSI rack. I've been researching the L track heavy duty attachment options.

Xrford · Apr 26, 2023

Pat-Ard said:
I asked BSI after the dynamic load of the platform. They said 100kg for each platform…

what is the dynamic load of the two combined? If they say 200kg then that would exceed the dynamic roof load of the Grenadier, so not sure how a rack can exceed the dynamic load of the substructure it is attached to. I also would ask the question if the rating is lower for off road use?

das mo · Apr 26, 2023

Xrford said:
what is the dynamic load of the two combined? If they say 200kg then that would exceed the dynamic roof load of the Grenadier, so not sure how a rack can exceed the dynamic load of the substructure it is attached to. I also would ask the question if the rating is lower for off road use?

Loading your car you always go by the weakest component. As the third element is just put in-between the other 2 without extra legs, it still is only 200kg with the Grenadier with 150kg being less, so never load more than 150kg driving. If you go off-road the 150 probably is more 100kg to respect the additional force.

DCPU · Apr 26, 2023

It's not just attached (if indeed it is) to the roof, it's also attached to the tie down bars ~ so some load may be imparted through both?

Logsplitter · Apr 26, 2023

DCPU said:
It's not just attached (if indeed it is) to the roof, it's also attached to the tie down bars ~ so some load may be imparted through both?

That’s a good point. Maybe when serious off-roading. Then a Couple of ratchet straps thrown across the top of the rhino rack and fixed to to the tie down bars would be extra security

das mo · Apr 26, 2023

DCPU said:
It's not just attached (if indeed it is) to the roof, it's also attached to the tie down bars ~ so some load may be imparted through both?

Are you suggesting we can increase the dynamic load limit of the IG distributing load onto tie down bars as well as the gutters? If not, the BSI rack will never be the weakest link here, so it is safe to use with up the allowed 150kg.

Xrford · Apr 26, 2023

Logsplitter said:
That’s a good point. Maybe when serious off-roading. Then a Couple of ratchet straps thrown across the top of the rhino rack and fixed to to the tie down bars would be extra security

The Grenadier has a dynamic roof load rating of 150kg, that means any structure above the top of the door (ie the roof structure)is rated to handle max 150kg Cargo with the weight born by the roof. The grab handles were designed to be a lashing point for the roof cargo and were never designed to support roof cargo so the forces put through the grab handles for lashing cargo down are totally different than the forces for supporting the weight of the cargo. The crux of the matter is the load you attach to the roof in total (including the mass of the rack) should be either the racks design limit or the 150kg limit of the Grenadier, which ever is the lesser. No additional support you add to the rack will allow you to exceed the 150kg limit, in fact it will just take away from your cargo as you are adding weight.

DaveB · Apr 26, 2023

das mo said:
Loading your car you always go by the weakest component. As the third element is just put in-between the other 2 without extra legs, it still is only 200kg with the Grenadier with 150kg being less, so never load more than 150kg driving. If you go off-road the 150 probably is more 100kg to respect the additional force.

There has been many cases in Australia where brands such as Rhino have failed off road and the owner is not covered by insurance.
They have on their website that you have to derate by 50% for off road use.

DaveB · Apr 26, 2023

Xrford said:
The Grenadier has a dynamic roof load rating of 150kg, that means any structure above the top of the door is rated to handle max 150kg Cargo with the weight born by the roof. The grab handles were designed to be a lashing point for the roof cargo and were never designed to support roof cargo so the forces put through the grab handles for lashing cargo down are totally different than the forces for supporting the weight of the cargo. The crux of the matter is the load you attach to roof in total (including the mass of the rack) should be either the racks design limit or the 150kg limit of the Grenadier, which ever is lesser. No additional support you add to the rack will allow you to exceed the 150kg limit, in fact it will just take away from your cargo as you are adding weight.

Exactly
So 150kg
Minus 60kg for the overweight Rhino rack leaves 90kg
derated by 50% offroad leaves 45kg.
If you can find a roof top tent that only weighs 45kg please post it.

Logsplitter · Apr 26, 2023

Xrford said:
The Grenadier has a dynamic roof load rating of 150kg, that means any structure above the top of the door is rated to handle max 150kg Cargo with the weight born by the roof. The grab handles were designed to be a lashing point for the roof cargo and were never designed to support roof cargo so the forces put through the grab handles for lashing cargo down are totally different than the forces for supporting the weight of the cargo. The crux of the matter is the load you attach to the roof in total (including the mass of the rack) should be either the racks design limit or the 150kg limit of the Grenadier, which ever is the lesser. No additional support you add to the rack will allow you to exceed the 150kg limit, in fact it will just take away from your cargo as you are adding weight.

yes thanks. I get that but surmising extra fixing with ratchet straps would help off road. Just a thought. I just hope the gutter rails are stronger the original defenders s they are sagging on mine

das mo · Apr 26, 2023

DaveB said:
Exactly
So 150kg
Minus 60kg for the overweight Rhino rack leaves 90kg
derated by 50% offroad leaves 45kg.
If you can find a roof top tent that only weighs 45kg please post it.

That is why nobody will end up driving a full rack around under a tent.

I am almost done with my plans. My solution will be based on three pairs of these.

https://daysontracks.com/pages/roof-rack

The top base is 120x80mm in size made from 4mm steel. Slotted for 8mm screws.

So I will use regular 40x40 or 40x80 mm alloy bars across the roof and have some 40x40 ones on the side. Feet come with airline / utility fixing option.

With few of these profiles at home, it allows me to lengthen and shorten the rack as needed and build / fix everything with cheap 8mm screws and material that is available all around Europe.

A pair of these high gutter mount, spacing to the rubber thingies on the IG roof is 30mm, weights 2,5kg. Profiled are 1,5kg per meter. So I should be able to put this together in the 25-30kg range easily.

Might even have an extended frame running around and between the safari windows to allow extra loading when needed.

And if I end up travelling without my RTT, I can fix panels on top with some 8mm bolts.

What do you think? Any major concerns?

Xrford · Apr 26, 2023

DaveB said:
Exactly
So 150kg
Minus 60kg for the overweight Rhino rack leaves 90kg
derated by 50% offroad leaves 45kg.
If you can find a roof top tent that only weighs 45kg please post it.

Would it not be 150kg load limit of the rack at 50% which is 75 kg
load limit of the roof is (150 - rack 60) =90 kg so the lesser of the two would be 75kg you need a tent less than 75kg

das mo · Apr 26, 2023

Logsplitter said:
yes thanks. I get that but surmising extra fixing with ratchet straps would help off road. Just a thought. I just hope the gutter rails are stronger the original defenders s they are sagging on mine

Yeah. I gave the gutters at the dealer a solid shake and was semi-confident these will hold our family of 4 in stormy nights.

Do we have written confirmation on all sections of the gutters are equally strong or there being sections to prefer?

DaveB · Apr 26, 2023

das mo said:
That is why nobody will end up driving a full rack around under a tent.

I am almost done with my plans. My solution will be based on three pairs of these.

View attachment 7809500

https://daysontracks.com/pages/roof-rack

The top base is 120x80mm in size made from 4mm steel. Slotted for 8mm screws.

So I will use regular 40x40 or 40x80 mm alloy bars across the roof and have some 40x40 ones on the side. Feet come with airline / utility fixing option.

View attachment 7809501

With few of these profiles at home, it allows me to lengthen and shorten the rack as needed and build / fix everything with cheap 8mm screws and material that is available all around Europe.

A pair of these high gutter mount, spacing to the rubber thingies on the IG roof is 30mm, weights 2,5kg. Profiled are 1,5kg per meter. So I should be able to put this together in the 25-30kg range easily.

View attachment 7809504

Might even have an extended frame running around and between the safari windows to allow extra loading when needed.

And if I end up travelling without my RTT, I can fix panels on top with some 8mm bolts.

What do you think? Any major concern

Looks like a good solution
Unfortunately/fortunately you are not allowed to build your own roof rack in Australia

DaveB · Apr 26, 2023

Xrford said:
Would it not be 150kg load limit of the rack at 50% which is 75 kg
load limit of the roof is (150 - rack 60) =90 kg so the lesser of the two would be 75kg you need a tent less than 75kg

That is possible as Rhino just states the load rating needs to be de-rated by up to 50% but then doesn't clarify.

I find it a bit hard to believe that their rack weighs exactly 90kg

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