On the Grenadier Fence in Brisbane

globalgregors · Mar 14, 2023

grenadierboy said:
impressive but the Grenadier is 40% heavier (900kg) so.........maybe 8 L/100km might be the best a Grenny would get on similar drive

Plus unsprung weight plus aerodynamics of a shoe box...

Tazzieman · Mar 14, 2023

globalgregors said:
Plus unsprung weight plus aerodynamics of a shoe box...

All is forgotten and forgiven when you factor in the overall coolness

bigleonski · Mar 14, 2023

Wayneos said:
Take this how you will, but a mate of mine just drove his 2020 diesel BMW X3 (same B57 inline 6 and ZF box the Grenadier shares) 900km from Sydney to Melbourne and recorded 5.5Lt/100km.

His car is probably one whole tonne lighter and has better aerodynamics than the Grenadier but I was pretty astonished! This is the photo he snapped of the cluster.

It gives me hope that we might get better fuel economy than is officially posted. We'll find out soon enough I suppose!

View attachment 7806064

That’s similar to our X3 with the 2.0L TD motor. Tidy.

DesertGecko · Mar 20, 2023

I visited the 4x4 show yesterday. Talked to ineos people and apparently demos will be here April/May. They didn't say which April/May but we will assume 2023.

Anyway so I'm looking for my drive in the next couple of months.

Another funny.. I had the Ineos people telling me behind the car "Ineos will not pressure people to buy cars, buy whenever you are comfortable". At the front of the car the local dealer saying "by the time you put your order in they will be delivering in 2029!". LOL.

Other news was they believed they have addressed the cost issues. No one knows of course, but if/when there is a price rise it's unlikely to be very large like the last one.

Davman · Mar 20, 2023

I found myself in the Qantas Club in Hobart on Friday evening, chatting to my travel companion about the Ineos. He hadn't see in before, but he loved it.

I then turned around (glancing at the alcohol bar behind me) and noticed that the bloke sitting right behind me had the IG website up on his phone - showing it to his missus.
Ineos salesman don't need to pressure sell - the car sells itself.

Solmanic · Mar 20, 2023

Davman said:
Ineos salesman don't need to pressure sell - the car sells itself.

True.
I suspect once these things get out into the wild the general interest from non-original Defender tragics will spark and they will have a whole other group of potential customers seeking them out.

DesertGecko · Mar 21, 2023

Solmanic said:
True.
I suspect once these things get out into the wild the general interest from non-original Defender tragics will spark and they will have a whole other group of potential customers seeking them out.

My experience with "new defender" owners is they are none too pleased that someone else has done what LR should have done. It turns out is was possible to build a proper defender replacement after all. And now they are stuck with a defender themed SUV. Oh well.

I do wonder whether some of them will drift to the grenadier. I'm really not sure. The grenadier might be too basic for them. Much like when I bought my defender.. lots of people liked them but went for the luxury disco...

DCPU · Mar 21, 2023

For JLR, the Defender is now supposed to be a brand all of it's own under its new "house of brands" strategy and spawn a whole family of vehicles.

The only thing I can see to challenge Ineos directly will be in the small electric 4x4 market. Indirectly, the competition will always be there if you have 60k to spend on a vehicle.

Eric · Mar 21, 2023

DCPU said:
For JLR, the Defender is now supposed to be a brand all of it's own under its new "house of brands" strategy and spawn a whole family of vehicles.

The only thing I can see to challenge Ineos directly will be in the small electric 4x4 market. Indirectly, the competition will always be there if you have 60k to spend on a vehicle.

Or any other manufacturer that can actually deliver a vehicle in a timely manner!!!

DesertGecko · Mar 21, 2023

Eric said:
Or any other manufacturer that can actually deliver a vehicle in a timely manner!!!

Good point. It's still a theoretical vehicle.

Probably too soon...

Krabby · Mar 21, 2023

I'm not sure if this translates is the UK or EU or Oz, but in the States, but I wonder if many new Defender owners even know about the proper ones. I think the LR types here know and appreciate the company's history and story, but I'm not sure most new Def owners do. I could be totally off the mark, and I've no data to back it up, but that's what my gut says.

DCPU · Mar 21, 2023

It's an interesting point. JLR trade heavily on "heritage" which almost exclusively means old Defender, or earlier iterations.

I've just been to the main JLR website, and downloaded the LR experience brochure. There are 104 images in the pdf and an old Defender figures in 28 of them.

This is the section for Scotland:

Krabby · Mar 21, 2023

DCPU said:
It's an interesting point. JLR trade heavily on "heritage" which almost exclusively means old Defender, or earlier iterations.

I've just been to the main JLR website, and downloaded the LR experience brochure. There are 104 images in the pdf and an old Defender figures in 28 of them.

This is the section for Scotland:
View attachment 7806698

I don't disagree - but Stateside, I don't know if that's their strategy.

trobex · Mar 21, 2023

Krabby said:
I'm not sure if this translates is the UK or EU or Oz, but in the States, but I wonder if many new Defender owners even know about the proper ones. I think the LR types here know and appreciate the company's history and story, but I'm not sure most new Def owners do. I could be totally off the mark, and I've no data to back it up, but that's what my gut says.

If you saw how many New Defenders drivers there are in SEQLD Australia, none of them ever see the dirt, then I would hazard a guess the majority of owners here in AUS are for show. Given most I see are just businesspersons/real estate agents. I have not seen a New Def towing anything yet - that's honest truth - not one has I seen with anything in tow...

To the point of the OP, have you decided on placing an order?!?!

Krabby · Mar 21, 2023

DCPU said:
It's an interesting point. JLR trade heavily on "heritage" which almost exclusively means old Defender, or earlier iterations.

I've just been to the main JLR website, and downloaded the LR experience brochure. There are 104 images in the pdf and an old Defender figures in 28 of them.

This is the section for Scotland:
View attachment 7806698

I was just poking around the LR USA site and couldn't find one image of a proper Defender. In the "our story" section it showed a blueprint-type drawing of an early Series - maybe the mythical "center steer" - but nothing about real Series trucks or Defenders.

Mitchell300 · Mar 21, 2023

DCPU said:
It's an interesting point. JLR trade heavily on "heritage" which almost exclusively means old Defender, or earlier iterations.

I've just been to the main JLR website, and downloaded the LR experience brochure. There are 104 images in the pdf and an old Defender figures in 28 of them.

This is the section for Scotland:
View attachment 7806698

I’ve been at that site in Dunkeld. My oldest son and I did the off road course in one of the new defenders. It was a good day out with friendly and knowledgeable staff.

DesertGecko · Mar 21, 2023

trobex said:
If you saw how many New Defenders drivers there are in SEQLD Australia, none of them ever see the dirt, then I would hazard a guess the majority of owners here in AUS are for show. Given most I see are just businesspersons/real estate agents. I have not seen a New Def towing anything yet - that's honest truth - not one has I seen with anything in tow...

To the point of the OP, have you decided on placing an order?!?!

I haven't placed an order yet. I'm about 90% sure I will. I have an event on in October and I don't want the car before then, so I'm just going to take my time and have a drive of a production one. I'd also like to try a diesel and a petrol. I probably won't be travelling next year so having a year to set a car up would suit me just fine.

DaveB · Mar 23, 2023

trobex said:
If you saw how many New Defenders drivers there are in SEQLD Australia, none of them ever see the dirt, then I would hazard a guess the majority of owners here in AUS are for show. Given most I see are just businesspersons/real estate agents. I have not seen a New Def towing anything yet - that's honest truth - not one has I seen with anything in tow...

To the point of the OP, have you decided on placing an order?!?!

I agree with you
VFACTS is the official register of car sales in Australia and all manufacturers report to them every month on sales figures
However here In Australia in the land of 4WDS and SUV's LR must be seriously disappointed with the results

DesertGecko · Mar 23, 2023

DaveB said:
I agree with you
VFACTS is the official register of car sales in Australia and all manufacturers report to them every month on sales figures
However here In Australia in the land of 4WDS and SUV's LR must be seriously disappointed with the results

View attachment 7806860

I'm sure their poor reliability reputation (which IMO is deserved) is hitting them hard. They know it too.. I'm not realistically sure what can be done either. It's not about factory build quality. Having vehicles that are electronic and mechanical Tour De Force is just not compatible with off road/touring use. It's like a philosophical problem for them.

Charging 2k for a basic off road capability pack and 4k for a towbar on a 100k base model "Defender" is just not OK.

And their utilitarian customers have had to walk away because they LR walked away from the market. Hello Toyota. Hellooo Grenadier. I've zero sympathy for them. If I'm honest - I'll be quite delighted if Ineos beats them for sales in Australia once their production allows.

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/03/j...-have-cost-the-company-100000-sales-per-year/

DCPU · Mar 24, 2023

You have to remember that JLR have been hit hard on supply side issues, so sales figures are impacted hard when looking at historical comparisons.

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On the Grenadier Fence in Brisbane

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