Footwell intrusion

Krabby said:

This just in from the Australian office …

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Australian snow shoes

Tazzieman said:

And they are children's thongs. Gonna be uncomfortable on those 6-8 hour drives everyone talks about.

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I do a lot of 3 plus hour drives, probably 20,000km a year of my driving is in that range

trobex said:

Why not put the exhaust on the left passenger side? If it is by design. Everything else in the Gren seems to be well thought out.

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They dont actually make left hand or right hand drive engines

trobex said:

I do a lot of 3 plus hour drives, probably 20,000km a year of my driving is in that range

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Good to stop and stretch. Prevent DVT.

Tazzieman said:

Or indeed , Sir Jim!

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Ahh Jim . . .

Tazzieman said:

Good to stop and stretch. Prevent DVT.

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I am going to need to with my left knee bent up a little.. haha!

trobex said:

I am going to need to with my left knee bent up a little.. haha!

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Pair of these plus a pair of thongs should circumvent the need for subcutaneous heparin prophylaxis

Tazzieman said:

Good to stop and stretch. Prevent DVT.

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I tend to drink a lot of water so regular stops are not optional regardless of the fact the vehicle can be hosed out.

RavenVoice said:

Honestly, I’m not sure why so many people are making such a big deal about this, I don’t think I’ve been in a car that doesn’t have a footrest/exhaust protrusion in the right-hand footwell (the stop-gap Land Rover that I’m currently driving certainly has one). Granted, the one in the Grenadier does look to be larger than most from the photos; however, it doesn’t seem to protrude above the pedal line. I might be proven wrong when my vehicle finally arrives & I get to drive it; however, I personally don’t see why one would want their left foot to sit/rest lower than their right foot which is on the pedals. Surely the footrest results in both feet being more level & a better/more balanced posture? Am I missing something here?

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First time sitting in one today at Avalon.

The footwell intrusion is completely unacceptable for me.

The only way forward for me would be to cut the dpf, modify the exhaust, cut out the footwell intrusion and patch it all up again flat.

Mj_pilot said:

First time sitting in one today at Avalon.

The footwell intrusion is completely unacceptable for me.

The only way forward for me would be to cut the dpf, modify the exhaust, cut out the footwell intrusion and patch it all up again flat.

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Yeah, it would be a deal breaker for me too if I was looking at a Right Hand Drive (RHD). Many folks on the forum seem okay with it, and I think the footrest would provide a great sense of stability when doing technical off-road driving - a great way to brace yourself when getting tossed around. But for longer drives, I have to stretch out my left leg. I'm 6' 2" with long legs. My wife is 5' 10" and I don't think she will be happy in the passenger seat of the Grenadier. She really needs to stretch her legs on long drives or she gets hip pain.

Even in my manual transmission vehicles I can stretch my left leg, and the dead pedal (that's what we've always called the footrest to the left of the clutch) is further away from the driver's seat (and its quite small). With the footrest in the Grenadier, I'd feel like my knee was way too high.

The top photo is me in the passenger seat (right hand seat) of a LHD 2019 4-Runner - unashamedly rocking the Berkenstocks after a long run

For contrast, the second photo is from a member of the forum sitting in the driver's seat of a RHD Grenadier.

We've got a two-week trip coming up, heading to Moab, Utah, for some climbing (about 3 hours driving), then to Flagstaff, Arizona to meet friends and hike the Grand Canyon (5 hours driving), then back to Colorado (8 hours 30 min driving). I can't really imagine doing that trip in a RHD Grenadier, and I'm not sure my wife will tolerate it as a passenger in a LHD Grenadier. I've been waiting and waiting to test drive the Grenadier (LHD) and have my wife ride shotgun, but they have pushed back the test drive date for my region four times (originally scheduled for October 2022). A little frustrating, but we have all been dealing with that...





I totally understand that many people won't care about the foot-well intrusion. We are all different when it comes to seating positions that are comfortable. And some other folk might not like it, but will be willing to accept it in exchange for all the great things about the Grenadier. Let's be honest - everyone who is a long-term owner of an old Defender or a Jeep has accepted discomforts and annoyances that come with these vehicles. Some people can't own a Defender or Jeep - other people can't bear the thought of living without one!

Just snapped a couple of photos from my Tacoma, which is about the size of a Hilux.
I'm 6' 2" with Euro size 45 feet (11 American). Left foot on the dead pedal, right foot on the gas pedal.


Passenger foot well


The Tacoma is not considered a big vehicle here in the U.S. - but way more room than in a Grenadier

On the other hand, the seating position is much better in the Grenadier, and the seats are way nicer than in my truck.

stickshifter said:

Just snapped a couple of photos from my Tacoma, which is about the size of a Hilux.
I'm 6' 2" with Euro size 45 feet (11 American). Left foot on the dead pedal, right foot on the gas pedal.
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Passenger foot well
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The Tacoma is not considered a big vehicle here in the U.S. - but way more room than in a Grenadier

On the other hand, the seating position is much better in the Grenadier, and the seats are way nicer than in my truck.

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The footwell would be ok while 4wding but it’s not ergonomic for long trips. I could accept this if you had room to stretch the left leg somewhere but the footwell is incredibly tight. Bloody hell, mostly everything else seems well designed and built.

stickshifter said:

Just snapped a couple of photos from my Tacoma, which is about the size of a Hilux.
I'm 6' 2" with Euro size 45 feet (11 American). Left foot on the dead pedal, right foot on the gas pedal.
View attachment 7805284

Passenger foot well
View attachment 7805285

The Tacoma is not considered a big vehicle here in the U.S. - but way more room than in a Grenadier

On the other hand, the seating position is much better in the Grenadier, and the seats are way nicer than in my truck.

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Fwiw Stick, I'm with you on this.

Even the misanthorpe in me has been surprised by the avowals of failure of imagination posted on this subject (failure to concieve how this will be a problem for some).

Your Taco looks to have great foot room. I was going to post pics of the light truck I daily - equally roomy and not a footrest in site. There are prob 10s of millions of similar vehicles on the road road today in Can/US. There's bound to be a good number of those drivers who'd laugh out loud at the Gren footwell.

But alas, its a lost cause, the faithful have spoken.

Yeah, yeah its RHD. But what about the LHD passenger ? - or is the Gren to be, "the car for the uncaring"... Note to passenger: you do have a choice: you can like it or you can lump it.

The Billionaire's Bump could be a deal breaker for me aswell. (IF, that is, IA ever chooses to make that big step from mfrg to customer delivery AND brings it over here)

In our household it has to work for "us", whoever is driving/passenger.

Nevermind that someone has said it will work for them (unproven AFAIK) and therefore it follows that it should work for me (and everyone else for that matter).

painter said:

But alas, its a lost cause, the faithful have spoken.

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It’s not a matter of “the faithful have spoken” it’s a matter of the design is what it is and no matter how much people complain, the engineering involved with changing it now means no matter how much people complain it isn’t changing on this platform. So now it’s just a matter of an individual decision as to whether you think you can live with it. I have decided I think I can and so am going forward. Others will likely make a different decision and thats up to them.

Mj_pilot said:

First time sitting in one today at Avalon.

The footwell intrusion is completely unacceptable for me.

The only way forward for me would be to cut the dpf, modify the exhaust, cut out the footwell intrusion and patch it all up again flat.

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The footwell is the one thing I'm going to test on a couple big trips the day I collect the Gren - and either sell or keep it based on that.

AnD3rew said:

It’s not a matter of “the faithful have spoken” it’s a matter of the design is what it is and no matter how much people complain, the engineering involved with changing it now means no matter how much people complain it isn’t changing on this platform. So now it’s just a matter of an individual decision as to whether you think you can live with it. I have decided I think I can and so am going forward. Others will likely make a different decision and thats up to them.

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Looking at possible obtrusions into cabins is one of the early design phase QA checks, the first thing you do, when designing cars/boats/planes (old man is a boat builder so in CAD models this stuff is always overlaid in, checked now in 3D models etc etc). It was a design oversight and it got away from them (was ignored). It was picked up in the early prototypes and all they had to do was adjust ""SOMETHING" 75mm as that's the offset in plane from pedal to rest. Problem solved. It is VERY annoying that this anticipated vehicle has such an obvious f*** up. Sorry to say but anyone accepting this as 'ok or suitable' is blind or numb in a few hip joints and we got to call out some of the rose-tinted glasses from time to time... it will become apparent when you're not doing a 15-minute hilly run, and instead, a 1hr+ straight road stint.

For most, it will come down to the first few long trips and if its 'bearable' or not. If not, sell it. If bearable, keep it. Having said that, the footwell is not 'acceptable' in its current form but could be bearable.

Still waiting for my Contract!

PS: I am just mad the vehicle I want dearly might end up being a wasted time (waiting) as I will sell if not comfortable and go for the 'old' Cruiser.

trobex said:

PS: I am just mad the vehicle I want dearly might end up being a wasted time (waiting) as I will sell if not comfortable and go for the 'old' Cruiser.

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I feel sorry for you that at this stage of the wait, you are not convinced...I personally think it is a waste of time and effort for you now...I would have to be convinced before purchasing and not waste any more of my time, writing, reading and wondering...wait for a production car and test driving that is what I will be doing...I am 99% there...happy motoring

AnD3rew said:

It’s not a matter of “the faithful have spoken” it’s a matter of the design is what it is and no matter how much people complain, the engineering involved with changing it now means no matter how much people complain it isn’t changing on this platform. So now it’s just a matter of an individual decision as to whether you think you can live with it. I have decided I think I can and so am going forward. Others will likely make a different decision and thats up to them.

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The Grenadier has a long engine (I-6) and a long transmission (8-speed auto) tucked within a 115” wheelbase. It creates an intrusion into the cabin. There is a reason why auto designers like V-6 engines from a space-utilization standpoint: They are shorter, and therefore, allow more room in the cabin - especially the cabin footwell. I personally prefer an inline-6 compared to a V-6, but every choice creates a compromise somewhere else.

Mj_pilot said:

First time sitting in one today at Avalon.

The footwell intrusion is completely unacceptable for me.

The only way forward for me would be to cut the dpf, modify the exhaust, cut out the footwell intrusion and patch it all up again flat.

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Sorry, I thought this was meant to be a joke post when I first read it, and wondered whether it should be in the Daily Joke thread on this forum.

trobex said:

Looking at possible obtrusions into cabins is one of the early design phase QA checks, the first thing you do, when designing cars/boats/planes (old man is a boat builder so in CAD models this stuff is always overlaid in, checked now in 3D models etc etc). It was a design oversight and it got away from them (was ignored). It was picked up in the early prototypes and all they had to do was adjust ""SOMETHING" 75mm as that's the offset in plane from pedal to rest. Problem solved. It is VERY annoying that this anticipated vehicle has such an obvious f*** up. Sorry to say but anyone accepting this as 'ok or suitable' is blind or numb in a few hip joints and we got to call out some of the rose-tinted glasses from time to time... it will become apparent when you're not doing a 15-minute hilly run, and instead, a 1hr+ straight road stint.

For most, it will come down to the first few long trips and if its 'bearable' or not. If not, sell it. If bearable, keep it. Having said that, the footwell is not 'acceptable' in its current form but could be bearable.

Still waiting for my Contract!

PS: I am just mad the vehicle I want dearly might end up being a wasted time (waiting) as I will sell if not comfortable and go for the 'old' Cruiser.

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I agree it was a design oversight, I have heard that the BMW engine wasn’t always the firm choice and it’s possible that a lot of the chassis design and dimensions had already been locked. But whatever the reason it is what it is. Changing it would require either moving the engine forward, moving the cabin back or raising the seating position or redesigning the whole exhaust side of the engine including DPF, turbos, etc. allnof these have huge costs and flow on effects across the vehicle and its dynamics and capabilities. It’s pretty clear that by the time they realised it migtn’t be ideal they were too far down the track to go back.