Europe BPM (passenger car tax in The Netherlands)

explorersoverland · Jan 5, 2023

Hi to all the Grenadiers and in particular the Dutch enthusiasts on this forum.
In the Netherlands we have a special kind of tax for cars called BPM (Tax of Passenger Cars and Motorcycles) in addition to the normal 21% tax. The bpm is calculated on the CO2 emissions in grams/km, or on the net list price.

See here how this is calculated:
https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/...en_betalen/bpm_tarief/bpm-tarief-personenauto

For the Grenadier: The CO₂ emission (Diesel – 276-319 g/km, Petrol – 325-336 g/km).

Let take the diesel version as an example: 319 g/km.

319 - 165 = 154
154 x 488 = 75.152
75.152 + 12.602 = € 87.754

Plus diesel surcharge
319 - 73 = 246
246 + 94,30 = € 23.197,80
87.754 + 23.197.80 = € 110.951.80 BPM for the 5 seats diesel!!

Then you have to pay the normal tax of 21% and the car itself! A grenadier in the Netherlands therefore costs around €200,000.

Fortunately there is also the possibility to buy in the car on a so called “grijs kenteken” (gray license plate, but the color is still yellow). This is only possible for the two seater version and you can only buy and drive it commercially.

Because of this bpm rule, I only expect to see very few 5-seater versions on a Dutch license plate. Personally I ordered the two-seater version on a gray license plate because the car is otherwise much too expensive.

Are there any Dutch people on this forum who have ordered a grenadier and buy it on a yellow license plate?

Krabby · Jan 5, 2023

HOLY COW!!!

Can you buy it in another country?

explorersoverland · Jan 5, 2023

Krabby said:
HOLY COW!!!

Can you buy it in another country?

No, then the tax authorities will come and see you if you live and work in the Netherlands

DaveB · Jan 5, 2023

grenadier.app said:
No, then the tax authorities will come and see you if you live and work in the Netherlands

Lucky you can smoke dope freely

Krabby · Jan 5, 2023

grenadier.app said:
No, then the tax authorities will come and see you if you live and work in the Netherlands

That's a mindblowing number for any vehicle, let alone that in an adjacent country or two the on-road price will be 1/3 of that.

Jean Mercier · Jan 5, 2023

My retailer told me that the taxes on top of the Netherlands cars would be quite prohibitive! Their group is responsible for the Grenadier in several European countries. I still don't understand this decision of Ineos, but probably .... cost-benefit, because Hedin isn't an off-road specialist.
"Hedin Mobility Group's subsidiary Hedin Adventure Car has been appointed distributor of the Grenadier in a total of eleven markets: Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.
Distribution is centralized in Sweden, with local sales and service organizations in the different markets."

Hedin

stickshifter · Jan 5, 2023

No wonder everyone gets around by bicycle!

klarie · Jan 5, 2023

That is not only in NL like so but also in Denmark - At initial registration there is 180% registration fee of purchase price of a pax vehicle as I was told.
Guess what a Vehicle of 80.000 kEuro base price - is an 144.000 Euros Tax on top so 244kEuro.. unaffordable for most Danish people.

At the end - new vehicles are only taxi - and all others are used quite long. But they have an expensive social system paid by car owners.
When I lived in the Muenster / Greven area close to Netherlands - I had many neighbours of Netherlands origin. .... Some work in the Netherlands just X border
but school, kindergarten and anything else in Germany. - My daughter living in Muenster, - she takes courses in dutch - she is an apprentice at an optician to support patients from Netherlands.. However I understand both the Netherlands and Denmark have a general different taxation structure and also benefits. So certain items are higher taxed than others. And cars are significantly taxed. On the opposite.. small country / infrastucture and lots of cost for social benefit.. and a vehicle like the IG is not liked there.
Same in Denmark, and Norway. - I do not expect many 5 seater IG there..

Tazzieman · Jan 5, 2023

The above makes for chilling reading; I guess Aussies pay their "tax" when they pay the airfare just to get to Europe for a holiday.

klarie · Jan 5, 2023

Tazzieman said:
The above makes for chilling reading; I guess Aussies pay their "tax" when they pay the airfare just to get to Europe for a holiday.

Hm.. we pay tax on everything in Germoney even taxes on taxes.
But there very little benefit and taxes may not be high on a particular item but as nearly everything taxed .. we pay a lot indirectly.
however there is one law taxes may not be of a kind that it will have the effect of strangulation of business meaning an equivalent of prohibition. Taxes on cars raised in NL and DK are like prohibition.
However they have other social systems.. and generally a different taxation.
Same in CH so income tax is quite low. also vat. But very low benefits.. private health insurance and other topics come into account where a Swiss citizen must take care by himself of what in other countries is covered from tax money.

Krabby · Jan 5, 2023

klarie said:
That is not only in NL like so but also in Denmark - At initial registration there is 180% registration fee of purchase price of a pax vehicle as I was told.
Guess what a Vehicle of 80.000 kEuro base price - is an 144.000 Euros Tax on top so 244kEuro.. unaffordable for most Danish people.

At the end - new vehicles are only taxi - and all others are used quite long. But they have an expensive social system paid by car owners.
When I lived in the Muenster / Greven area close to Netherlands - I had many neighbours of Netherlands origin. .... Some work in the Netherlands just X border
but school, kindergarten and anything else in Germany. - My daughter living in Muenster, - she takes courses in dutch - she is an apprentice at an optician to support patients from Netherlands.. However I understand both the Netherlands and Denmark have a general different taxation structure and also benefits. So certain items are higher taxed than others. And cars are significantly taxed. On the opposite.. small country / infrastucture and lots of cost for social benefit.. and a vehicle like the IG is not liked there.
Same in Denmark, and Norway. - I do not expect many 5 seater IG there..

Holy cow. How can someone even afford a Polo or Focus? That’s nuts.

klarie · Jan 5, 2023

Krabby said:
Holy cow. How can someone even afford a Polo or Focus? That’s nuts.

Yeah.. but in DK you see XXX in TV and may purchase novelty toys in a vending machine .. seen in Esbjerg, Danish West Coast.

Jean Mercier · Jan 5, 2023

Krabby said:
Holy cow. How can someone even afford a Polo or Focus? That’s nuts.

These cars are not that heavily taxed! It are taxes on "wealth", and (almost) nobody needs a Grenadier, roads are good! In Belgium we have luck (neighbor of the Netherlands), taxes on Grenadier still "affordable, or not prohibitive" but expensive anyway!

DaveB · Jan 5, 2023

We are being effectively being taxed less in Australia on our income tax and our GST (VAT) has remained at 10% since introduction.
The compulsory superannuation companies have to pay on top of your salary has also been increasing with the goal of reducing the need for people to go on government paid old age pensions.
Next financial year the majority of my income will be dropping to 30% tax and only a small amount at the ridiculous 45%

klarie · Jan 6, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
These cars are not that heavily taxed! It are taxes on "wealth", and (almost) nobody needs a Grenadier, roads are good! In Belgium we have luck (neighbor of the Netherlands), taxes on Grenadier still "affordable, or not prohibitive" but expensive anyway!

Its exactly this.. - it is a wealth tax. But there is one thing what you wrote there "need" Indeed who needs a gun, who needs a vehicle with more than 40 horse powers, who needs alcoholic beverage, who need jewellery, why garment and shoes in so many different variants, why a car at all we ve got public transport. You must do this and that and comply with and behave social if you get vaccinated.. if adverse affects occur .. you re pretty left alone.. all the same everywhere.
Noone has to tell me what I purchase, how I live my life. The problem of this society is to much social - and less personal decision and responsibility. This resulted in near extinction of vehicles like the IG. Its on us how we design our life. - The fact that we are attracted to an offroader like this - distinguishes us from the typical Tesla / woke folks. No matter if offroading is just a hobby by itself, e.g. parcours, if overlanding type vacation is the reason, if other hobbies or business will bring us us to own such a vehicle.
But at the end.. if the people of the Netherlands or Denmark or elsewhere wanted a change in this . they would probably have elected another government . and were protesting. As they don't they accept this. However as already stated in another post.. I know that (thanks to EU) citizen are free to move.. In my former neighbourhood live many people from Netherland (many from the are between Apeldoorn and Enschede and just over the border ..) Some Germans do the same.. e.g. to CZ or friends of mine to Croatia. Cheaper to live, less restricted local laws. A bit like the US.. if there is a county or a state that has more suitable conditions.. move there. Many Germans are to much rooted in. We should change that. Make our live on (IG) wheels.. f*ck taxes. reminds me on the wulf impersonating the sheriff of Nottingham in Disneys Robin Hood I was forced to watch with my children repeatedly long ago..

Tazzieman · Jan 6, 2023

klarie said:
Robin Hood I was forced to watch with my children repeatedly long ago..

What you must realise is that the older you get the more people ( including family) want to treat you like a child - restrictions , tellings off , various punishments.
You either become old & grumpy - or you adopt another attitude

DCPU · Jan 6, 2023

grenadier.app said:
Fortunately there is also the possibility to buy in the car on a so called “grijs kenteken” (gray license plate, but the color is still yellow). This is only possible for the two seater version and you can only buy and drive it commercially.

So are Ineos incorrect in showing a 5 seat commercial vehicle in their configurator?

Jean Mercier · Jan 6, 2023

klarie said:
But there is one thing what you wrote there "need" Indeed who needs a gun, who needs a vehicle with more than 40 horse powers, who needs alcoholic beverage, who need jewellery, why garment and shoes in so many different variants, why a car at all we ve got public transport. ...

That's exactly what I mean, I don't NEED a Grenadier either, I want it because I want it

emax · Jan 6, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
(almost) nobody needs a Grenadier, roads are good!

That's like "nobody needs a fishing rod, there is enough fish in the supermarkets". You can extend this to whatever you want.

Pleasure or enthusiasm no longer seem to play a role when the Greens want to push through their loopy ideology.

PS: I've just seen @klarie's excellent posting which basically says the same.

DaveB · Jan 6, 2023

Tazzieman said:
What you must realise is that the older you get the more people ( including family) want to treat you like a child - restrictions , tellings off , various punishments.
You either become old & grumpy - or you adopt another attitude

The first time you babysit your grandchildren you have to remind their parents that you have had children before

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