Workshop Manuals available?

[Jeremy996]

I have been e-mailing Gary Pearson, Head of Commercial Operations @ INEOS Automotive , via LinkedIn. My last message was sent today.

"Hi Gary, any progress on the manual yet? I don't know if you can see the Grenadier forum, but the lack of manual is more of an issue, especially for the US owners, miles from a dealer. For a few, it will be a barrier to purchase, (and a real bone of contention for me. I don't want to do the work myself, I want the ability to do it or pass it to someone else, if I cannot be bothered)."

The best steer I have had so far was, 11/05/2023:-

"Hi Jeremy
The main owners’ manual is available on the website now as a pdf.If you’re looking for the detailed CAD elements that we’ve referred to in previous Press then these will be released later as they will be finalised once all markets are live (America launches 2024).That said, if there are specific jobs you’re looking to do them let me know what they are and I’ll see if I can get them for you from Aftersales. I asked them today and they said they will have some parts ready for individual customers who need them. Best regards Gary"

 

[Christian]

Hello @Jeremy996 , thank you for sharing this correspondence. If I understood that correctly, that's a positive statement from Gary....

Nevertheless, it's all very contradictory. One side says there definitely won't be any manuals, the other side says they're working on it.

We should not be deterred and continue to make pressure until we have an official and positive statement on this.

However, I do not agree that this is primarily an American problem. It's an international problem!

 

[Jean Mercier]

Hello @Jeremy996 , thank you for sharing this correspondence. If I understood that correctly, that's a positive statement from Gary....

Nevertheless, it's all very contradictory. One side says there definitely won't be any manuals, the other side says they're working on it.

We should not be deterred and continue to make pressure until we have an official and positive statement on this.

However, I do not agree that this is primarily an American problem. It's an international problem!

It is indeed an International problem, I agree, but I think everyone should use his personal arguments to put pressure, even if it is "my dealer is at 35 km but I want to do it myself as you promised" (my case). I only can use the "promised" argument: dealers and workshops enough around Europe.
Australians, Americans, ... that's another story! Distance, time ... travelers @Logsplitter ... I want to travel to Morocco or Turkey or Romania ... what is the support there?

 

[Clark Kent]

Hello @Jeremy996 , thank you for sharing this correspondence. If I understood that correctly, that's a positive statement from Gary....

Nevertheless, it's all very contradictory. One side says there definitely won't be any manuals, the other side says they're working on it.

We should not be deterred and continue to make pressure until we have an official and positive statement on this.

However, I do not agree that this is primarily an American problem. It's an international problem!

Where are the categorical statements from Ineos that they are not going to deliver the workshop manuals? Jean quoted his dealer earlier in this thread "definitely won't be delivering", but I am not sure that a dealer is authorised to make statements on behalf of Ineos so that's likely the dealer's opinion - which may still prove to be correct. We have seen similar sentiments echoed here via other owners from their agents/dealers.

Ineos said they would provide the manuals but never gave a timeline. I assumed it would be coincident with first vehicle deliveries, like all of the accessories - many of which are still on back order. Ineos never said when they would deliver the manuals and I haven't seen a company statement saying they won't. Granted there is growing evidence they seem to be backing away from their commitment.
Don't misread me. I'm not making excuses for Ineos and they have not done a great job of this. Apparently building a car company and delivering to retail customers is hard.
This very question was put to Lyn Calder at an Ineos Owners Club meeting in Australia late last year. I was not present but I understand she didn't back away from the issue. She explained it was complex due to various market laws and she made notes from the meeting to take back to Ineos HQ.

 

[roadfever]

I‘ll chime in as well and say we need available service manuals soon. If something breaks I can’t have it towed 4 hours to the authorized service center (and manuals have been promised from the beginning). A parts list with ref numbers would be required too. I hope both are in the pipeline.

 

[255/85]

5. And last but not least - a basic beyond basic feature that all cars have had for the last 100 years - Manual interior door locks...

A safety, convenience, and longevity issue for sure. Even the Mrs. is a bit miffed that Grenadiers don't include these.

I've ridden in several vehicles over the years with sketchy electric door locks where you relied on someone else to open the door for you from the outside. It was kinda like a ride down to the station in a squad car.

 

[MattG]

The widely advertised promise that workshop manuals would be available for the Grenadier was a major factor in my decision to purchase the vehicle. If they do not become available in the near future (either free or via subscription), then I think all Grenadier owners have the right to know why. I agree. An open letter or signed petition from all interested owners would be a very reasonable starting point.

 

[AMD66]

My understanding, along with I think most people who have invested in a Grenadier would be that they would be made available. They are intrinsic to me/us being responsible owners for a number of clear reasons outlined in this discussion. I hope this is just light turbulence and getting them detailed not a positional refusal from Ineos.

 

[ECrider]

I have been e-mailing Gary Pearson, Head of Commercial Operations @ INEOS Automotive , via LinkedIn. My last message was sent today.

"Hi Gary, any progress on the manual yet? I don't know if you can see the Grenadier forum, but the lack of manual is more of an issue, especially for the US owners, miles from a dealer. For a few, it will be a barrier to purchase, (and a real bone of contention for me. I don't want to do the work myself, I want the ability to do it or pass it to someone else, if I cannot be bothered)."

The best steer I have had so far was, 11/05/2023:-

"Hi Jeremy
The main owners’ manual is available on the website now as a pdf.If you’re looking for the detailed CAD elements that we’ve referred to in previous Press then these will be released later as they will be finalised once all markets are live (America launches 2024).That said, if there are specific jobs you’re looking to do them let me know what they are and I’ll see if I can get them for you from Aftersales. I asked them today and they said they will have some parts ready for individual customers who need them. Best regards Gary"

@Stu_Barnes - Hi Stu, is there anychance of adding a 'strong' emoji within the 'React' choice. I.e I've often wanted to give a rather than a which sometimes doesn't quite fit the bill - imho (sorry Jean).

 

[DenisM]

It might, just might, be that having "completed" the first dealer "draft".... remember, there'll be revisions because others will find more efficient ways to do things; that a "civilian" version needs to be drafted which protects idiots from themselves...given the litigious nature of today's "western" consumer legal environment. It's rare that anything worthwhile eventuates in the first 12m. !! "Hasten slowly ".

 

[Tom109]

It might, just might, be that having "completed" the first dealer "draft".... remember, there'll be revisions because others will find more efficient ways to do things; that a "civilian" version needs to be drafted which protects idiots from themselves...given the litigious nature of today's "western" consumer legal environment. It's rare that anything worthwhile eventuates in the first 12m. !! "Hasten slowly ".

I think the civilian version is the new baby LC

 

[Stu_Barnes]

@Stu_Barnes - Hi Stu, is there anychance of adding a 'strong' emoji within the 'React' choice. I.e I've often wanted to give a rather than a which sometimes doesn't quite fit the bill - imho (sorry Jean).

I'll have a go.

 

[Tom109]

 

[don't ignore warning ligh]

All expressions of displeasure are understandable, but they do not help us as long as they only take place in this forum.

SO WE HAD ALREADY DISCUSSED AN “OPEN LETTER” TO SIR JIM!

That's why we now need numbers, data, facts and a jointly formulated statement that we can OFFICIALLY send to INEOS. I know from experience that OEMs fear nothing more than when customers turn against them. If necessary, we have to threaten to make the issue public. The press will certainly be interested in how INEOS deals with its early adopters and new customers.

This is called “customer power”!

I know that this is a two-edged sword. Because on the one hand we all want the project to be a success, on the other hand we want to get what was promised to us. Bad press scares off customers that we ALL need for the continued existence of the Grenadier.

And last but not least, I'm now consciously being provocative and going one step further: There is also the possibility of a class action lawsuit!

Well said .
We need to acknowledge the good and address the bad . Ineos have a big mountain to climb to make this vehicle a success. Their greatest weakness ( in my experience) is customer care and what they do when things go wrong . Things will (and have) gone wrong with the vehicle . This is their opportunity to shine out above competitors . They can't afford to have such a terrible reputation for dealing with problems at this point...

 

[FlyersFan76]

Has this little preview been posted on this forum yet?

View: https://youtu.be/D1c7QlNDylw


Apologies if it has.

 

[Tom109]

Has this little preview been posted on this forum yet?

View: https://youtu.be/D1c7QlNDylw


Apologies if it has.

Yes, please!

 

[grnamin]

Has this little preview been posted on this forum yet?

View: https://youtu.be/D1c7QlNDylw


Apologies if it has.

Leak, leak, baby!

 

[Tazzieman]

Has this little preview been posted on this forum yet?

View: https://youtu.be/D1c7QlNDylw


Apologies if it has.

It has , a year ago.
And nothing since.

 

[Jeremy996]

Has this little preview been posted on this forum yet?

View: https://youtu.be/D1c7QlNDylw


Apologies if it has.

More than once. I originally posted a short YouTube video to https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/107954-thoughts-and-musings-on-the-ineos-grenadier/page/39/#comments on the 29th October 2021. There was an article in CAR magazine not too long later, appended below.

If you ask your dealer very, very nicely, they might show you a bit of it - it is fabulous but Ineos Automotive are still struggling with the practical realities of releasing it to owners to use in the field. The last I heard was a release date the end of Q1 2024.

 

[jlglr4]

Just spoke with a rep from Ineos - main purpose was to discuss the missing northern CA dealer situation. But, asked about the manual and was told - no plans to release a service manual. I'm not sure how much this rep really knows, but just passing along another data point.

I asked what I'm supposed to do if I need service and the dealer is 5 hours away. They don't have an answer - lots of pretty words about being committed to working it out, but no answer. No plan. No offer to ship the car back and forth (not that I'd want that). There will be a northern CA dealer eventually, but no time frame on that either. Interestingly, the LA dealers are apparently full-up, so they're sending my order to San Diego.

To the last post, above, I kindof doubt a tech hiccup is preventing the rollout of the manual. I think they underestimated the amount of push-back they'd have from dealers if they made the service manual available. Does anyone know if any countries where Ineos is rolling out have laws requiring published service manuals? If so, there might at least be some "unauthorized" versions might start floating around at some point, though not the full CAD setup.