Wheel spacers

[Tom D]

So the CV joint shat itself big time!

 

[Cheshire cat]

Any idea if it was the front or the rear shaft?

Not as yet Tom
Don’t normally follow the FB threads but this one appeared on my feed. Will try and see if any more has been added.

 

[AWo]

I have just now read on FB, of a person on holiday in Romania. He has just suffered catastrophic failure of the Cardon joint and damage to his gearbox. To make things even worse, support has not been good. He has owned the vehicle a year and 14,000 KM and to this point, had been very happy.

That doesn't look to me like a cardon joint but more like a homokinetc joint, not bad...but why has it failed? Too much play? Too less lubrication? Too much power? Too much lifting?

AWo

 

[landmannnn]

That doesn't look to me like a cardon joint but more like a homokinetc joint, not bad...but why has it failed? Too much play? Too less lubrication? Too much power? Too much lifting?

AWo

Indeed, a constant velocity joint, not a cardan.
Speculating, the joint may have pulled out beyond the splines, perhaps incorrect assembly?

 

[Tazzieman]

That doesn't look to me like a cardon joint but more like a homokinetc joint, not bad...but why has it failed? Too much play? Too less lubrication? Too much power? Too much lifting?

AWo

Too much force!
Bigger wheels, fully loaded , wheel drop from a great height is my speculation.
As you know , you can break any part offroad if you push hard!
And then the aftermarket steps in , with stronger components...

 

[AWo]

Too much force!
Bigger wheels, fully loaded , wheel drop from a great height is my speculation.
As you know , you can break any part offroad if you push hard!
And then the aftermarket steps in , with stronger components...

...to shift the weak point somewhere else and to break there in the future...yes, I know...a never ending discussion.

However, you're explanation sounds feasible. Am I wrong when I say, the material should cope with such modifications (as long as they are not extraordinary)? or teh weak point should have been more to the wheel hub by design?

AWo

 

[Tazzieman]

...to shift the weak point somewhere else and to break there in the future...yes, I know...a never ending discussion.

However, you're explanation sounds feasible. Am I wrong when I say, the material should cope with such modifications (as long as they are not extraordinary)? or teh weak point should have been more to the wheel hub by design?

AWo

I think the Grenadier is pretty tough for most offroad applications.
But there are alway people who want to push their vehicles to extremes. Is that fair and reasonable use?
As with racing cars , stuff then breaks or wears quickly.
It's not necessarily the vehicle's fault!
It will be interesting to see whether warranties are honoured when people make claims against the perceived engineering/component shortcomings.
The small print is inserted for a reason!

 

[Tinerfeño]

The CV joint is not broken, the shaft has came off the splines.
Where is the traditional "sliding joint" in this propshaft? If that has seized it could cause shaft coming out of splines.
Suspension lift may have some effect on the sliding joint (where ever that may be).

 

[landmannnn]

There's a sliding joint on both propshafts.

 

[Cheshire cat]

Here is a good example of why this forum stands head and shoulders above that found on FB. Well thought out and informed opinion.

 

[AWo]

The CV joint is not broken, the shaft has came off the splines.
Where is the traditional "sliding joint" in this propshaft? If that has seized it could cause shaft coming out of splines.
Suspension lift may have some effect on the sliding joint (where ever that may be).

It is simply plugged in? Not mounted in any way? No bolts, rivets, welding,construction foam or some kind of spell?

AWo

 

[landmannnn]

It is simply plugged in? Not mounted in any way? No bolts, rivets, welding,construction foam or some kind of spell?

AWo

Most CV joints have a spring clip like this

On assembly you need to give the joint a good push to hear it click.

 

[Tom D]

One possible explanation for this is resonant vibration. I have experienced this twice in my Grenadier. That’s twice in 30000km so not much to go on.
My experience is as follows: on both occasions I was travelling at around 40mph, 70kph. I accelerated hard and as soon as the gearbox kicked down there was a very harsh vibration which shook the whole car. This only lasted a couple of seconds as I immediately backed off the throttle when it happened. The vibration was very harsh and would surely have broken something if I hadn’t lifted off the throttle. I am at a loss to explain why it happened. I have theories but thats all.

On both occasions I was in a slow lane of traffic and changed to a quicker lane, accelerating hard as i did so.

I have tried to replicate the situation but have not managed to make it happen again. Every thing seems fine under the car, the prop shafts bolts are tight and there’s no play anywhere. I asked the dealership to check the engine and gearbox mounts which they say are fine so there’s nothing obviously wrong.

My best theory to date is that there is a shock load that is transmitted to the drive shaft on kick down, possibly when it is kicked down by 2 or more gears. This shock load initiates a resonant vibration in the shaft which is exacerbated by some play in the system. The play could be coming from either the engine and gearbox mounts or the suspension bushes or is there an anti backlash device built into the shaft? It could also be coming from the sliding mechanism of the shaft or even the CV joints themselves. If it were possible to recreate the problem then you could stick a go pro under the vehicle and watch what is happening but as I said I can’t re-create it.

In terms of likely culprits I think the CV’s are not likely to be the issue its most likely the sliding mechanism but this is all conjecture.

This must be very rare as I have not heard of any reports of this happening anywhere on the internet.

I’d love to ask the victim of this failure wether the incident was initiated on click down and whether the bang of the shaft letting go was preceded by a harsh vibration…

Interested to hear your thoughts on this theory.

 

[AWo]

What about grease at that joint? Is there a seal so that it stays inplace for as long as possible? I never saw this joint in details.

AWo

 

[NQ94]

Appears to be another circlip failure allowing the shaft to be pulled from the splines of the CV joint at the t/case.
The euro type Spicer drive shafts with non-greasable/servicable coated slip joints can require extra effort to move and may have applied extra force to an incorrectly installed CV retainer circlip over time similar to the failure that occurred with one in Australia.