Wheel spacers

[AnD3rew]

But using rims with a different offset is not illegal, am I right?

You can change the offset slightly but there is a legal limit. It’s different by state, I think for 4wds is might be max 25mm in NSW, for some vehicles its the maximum set for the vehicle by the Manufacturer

 

[AZGrenadier]

I don’t see how wheel spacers would be any more difficult on the axle etc then similarly offset wheel with the same stance. Yes it would lead to more failure points as you are adding in the spacers and another set of studs or simply longer studs depending on the spacer but the results on the rest of the system would be the same. You would get increased wheel travel with either but that would be minimal at best.

 

[DCPU]

I don’t see how wheel spacers would be any more difficult on the axle etc then similarly offset wheel with the same stance.

I've always believed this:

"Secondly, installing wheel spacers on a car increases the leverage on the wheel bearing. The larger the spacer, the larger the leverage becomes. This reduces the life of the wheel bearing as they are not made to take leverage forces and can therefore wear faster, increasing rolling resistance and power loss of the car."

But the article quotes several other reasons as well:

Wheel Spacers - 3 Reasons Why You Should Not Fit Them

Installing wheels spacers is common upgrade within the tuning scene. In this post we explore the positives and negatives of fitting them.

suspensionsecrets.co.uk

 

[AZGrenadier]

It definitely would increase the forces in the wheel bearings but I don’t see how it would be any different then an increased offset wheel. If both push the contact patch of the tires away from the supporting hub the same distance them the forces are the same on the supporting hub. You could have a series of 10 centimeter spacers and the leverage on the hub would be the exact same as a single 10 centimeter spacer or a rim that stuck out 10 centimeters. The Lever arm is all the same.

 

[@nd]

Would increasing the size of tyres have the same affect as wheel spacers??
If so Ineos fitted 35"tyres to a prototype they would known if it could cause a problem?

 

[holdmybeer]

It definitely would increase the forces in the wheel bearings but I don’t see how it would be any different then an increased offset wheel.

I follow your reasoning but I think (?) you might mean decreased offset wheel, not increased.

i.e. a properly installed good quality 20mm spacer behind the stock 17" wheel, which has a +55mm offset, appears to the hub, bearings, and everything else like a +35mm offset wheel without a spacer.

If I understand this correctly, decreasing wheel offset (i.e. via more negative offset wheel alone or via a spacer) pushes the contact patch farther outboard.

 

[Tom D]

The problem with going too far on the offset is that if you catch deep water or dirt at the edge of the road they will pull violently and that will lead to accidents. No fun at all on dirt roads.

 

[AZGrenadier]

I follow your reasoning but I think (?) you might mean decreased offset wheel, not increased.

i.e. a properly installed good quality 20mm spacer behind the stock 17" wheel, which has a +55mm offset, appears to the hub, bearings, and everything else like a +35mm offset wheel without a spacer.

If I understand this correctly, decreasing wheel offset (i.e. via more negative offset wheel alone or via a spacer) pushes the contact patch farther outboard.

You are correct. A decreased offset pushing the wheel to the outside. Thanks for catching that.

 

[Cheshire cat]

I see Eibach have developed various wheel spacers for the Grenadier. 20 mm, 25 mm & 30 mm are all available. Bearing in mind Eibach are the original supplier of suspension parts for the Grenadier, I am quite intrigued and wonder if it might help decrease my turning circle.

 

[Mountain4x4]

I run them on my 1996 Montero with 37s, and with thousands of miles of extreme rock crawling. They can help with larger tires and stability. The key is to buy QUALITY ones. There are plenty of stories about cheap Chinese ones failing. So buy quality, and install correctly and they can be usefull.

 

[Tinerfeño]

In Finland maximum allowed track width change is +/- 30 mm which means wheel offset may be changed +/- 15 mm.
I guess many of this kind of limits to modifications are national.

 

[Cheshire cat]

There is a video by Abntr4x4 where they show that cardan joints are used at the front axle and not homokinetic joints. They claim it is a double cardan joint, however, it doesn't look like one. It looks like a single caradan joint. That is unusual, as I found these kind of joints only with non-permanent 4x4's as the cardan joints output rotation does not have the same speed as the rotation input at a given point of time. That's why permanent 4x4x usualy have a homocinetic joint. Drive shafts which use two cardan joints are build in a way that the output part of the first cardan joint is 90 degree rotated to the output part of the second cardan joint to compensate that cardan error. The compensation is best, when both joints are bend at the same angle.

That's how it is done for drive shafts:

View attachment 7818850

But for me it looks like a single cardan joint which means, no compensation at all. If the cardan joint can't compensate its rotation speed variantions because the wheels have a good grip on the road, that means stress and wear in the joint because the cardan error is not just going away.

Universal joint - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Is that really the best choice?

Gruß
AWo

I have just now read on FB, of a person on holiday in Romania. He has just suffered catastrophic failure of the Cardon joint and damage to his gearbox. To make things even worse, support has not been good. He has owned the vehicle a year and 14,000 KM and to this point, had been very happy.

 

[Cheshire cat]

I have just now read on FB, of a person on holiday in Romania. He has just suffered catastrophic failure of the Cardon joint and damage to his gearbox. To make things even worse, support has not been good. He has owned the vehicle a year and 14,000 KM and to this point, had been very happy.

Interestingly, always a little more to the story than first meets the eye. This vehicle has apparently been subject to a suspension lift. Looking forward to learning more.

 

[Tazzieman]

The large turning circle is a feature , and pays homage to its spiritual ancestor.
As everyone and his dog says these days, "it is what it is"

 

[Tom D]

Interestingly, always a little more to the story than first meets the eye. This vehicle has apparently been subject to a suspension lift. Looking forward to learning more.

A suspension lift on a solid axle vehicle will have had no effect on the UJ's because unlike on an IFS vehicle the angle placed on the UJ will not have changed with the lift. What could have affected the UJ is if the owner had adjusted the bump stops in an effort to get more steering angle / smaller turning circle.
Most likely this was a result of lifting a front wheel under high engine load and diff locks engaged. When the wheel touches down.... crunch. Not sure how this could have damaged the gear box though?

 

[Cheshire cat]

A suspension lift on a solid axle vehicle will have had no effect on the UJ's because unlike on an IFS vehicle the angle placed on the UJ will not have changed with the lift. What could have affected the UJ is if the owner had adjusted the bump stops in an effort to get more steering angle / smaller turning circle.
Most likely this was a result of lifting a front wheel under high engine load and diff locks engaged. When the wheel touches down.... crunch. Not sure how this could have damaged the gear box though?

I believe he was doing around 70 KM/H on the road when this happened.

 

[Cheshire cat]

believe he was doing around 70 KM/H on the road when this happened.

If as you say, a lift will have had no effect on the components, he can hopefully breathe a sigh of relief when it comes to warranty.

 

[Tom D]

I believe he was doing around 70 KM/H on the road when this happened.

Ah! so he hasn't broken the double carden joint at all which is located in the front axle, he has snapped a prop shaft. Or a prop shaft CV joint. That makes a lot more sense. Older solid axle vehicle such as old defender and 70 series had carden / universal joints on the prop shafts. The grenadier has CV joints on the prop shafts. I'd love to see pictures of the damage. I wonder did the CV joint break completely? did the shaft snap? or did it come undone at one end?
Interesting!

 

[Tom D]

Any idea if it was the front or the rear shaft?

 

[Paco Garcia]

Esta es la foto que publico en Facebook, también comenta que le pasó en la autopista a los 80 km con el control de crucero puesto.