Wait times compared to other vehicles

[crimson]

I read the below article that suggest the wait time for a new Toyota 70 series could be 4 years or never.  What are the chances of IG falling into the same category of delays and/or does the reduced technology mitigate this somewhat.  If production of new cars are taking this long it can only drive up the price and value for what people will pay for either a new or used 4wd.  This can only be a good thing for IG and potential owners, but keen to get opinions from others on this forum. 

I have a feeling and hope Ineos will honour the current cost of purchase, but start increasing costs to reflect the market conditions post July 2023.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-wait-times-model-by-model/

 

[Spjnr]

Albeit far simpler than most modern 4x4s, I think even the Grenadier will be complex compared to a 70 series! 

 

[Paachi]

[QUOTE username=crimson userid=8972094 postid=1332868819

I have a feeling and hope Ineos will honour the current cost of purchase, but start increasing costs to reflect the market conditions post July 2023.

[/QUOTE]

I totally believe this and hope Ineos honors the OG pricing. 2 factors

1. The supply chain issue won’t go away soon and even when it subsides, the companies that hedged long term purchases of raw materials and components early on will have the pick of choices. This is much like gas prices and airlines. When airlines complain of fuel prices and cost of tickets it’s partly BS. Because they have purchased/ hedged pricing when the fuel costs were lower. There is no way they are tactically managing their PnL with a fluctuating fuel cost. Ineos being a much more nascent company will endure supply issues for longer than an established firm like Toyota. 
2. If the Grenadier proves to be a success the more lucrative versions of LWB/ Troopy and Ute/ pickup will help them get more margins. This is the reason why I am considering buying the wagon now instead of waiting for the Troopy later. The Troopy I’m guessing will be easily a $100k vehicle in the Trialmaster version when/if comes in 2024
3.

 

[Andy]

I have had a LC 300 on order since January 22  I was called by the dealer a month ago to let me know it was going to be at least another 2 years form then.  Hence I have now ordered the IG

 

[Caladan]

I read the below article that suggest the wait time for a new Toyota 70 series could be 4 years or never. What are the chances of IG falling into the same category of delays and/or does the reduced technology mitigate this somewhat. If production of new cars are taking this long it can only drive up the price and value for what people will pay for either a new or used 4wd. This can only be a good thing for IG and potential owners, but keen to get opinions from others on this forum.

I have a feeling and hope Ineos will honour the current cost of purchase, but start increasing costs to reflect the market conditions post July 2023.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-wait-times-model-by-model/

I don't think INEOS is any more immune to the global problems of supply and demand than an established car company. I think INEOS may have one advantage over a larger manufacturer in that they have but one vehicle - the Grenadier - to offer. That makes their parts and accessories issues far simpler than juggling multiple lines of supply over numerous models. Here in the US, I'm coming up on my 8-month "anniversary" since ordering a Ford Bronco Badlands. In that time, I have received exactly one email from Ford Motor Company which was sent to merely confirm that they had received my factory order. The local dealership where I would make payment and take final delivery is, like me, also in the dark about when the vehicle will be scheduled for production. I ordered late in 2021 and now realize that I will have to return to the dealership in September 2022 in order to update my order for Manufacturing Year (MY) 2023 model. Will I receive price protection? No. What initially would have cost me $54K MSRP will now undoubtedly increase due to a combination of demand for the vehicle and inflation. And, there is still no indication that my truck will be built anytime soon. That is why I'm moving on to INEOS.

 

[DaveB]

A lot of the supply problems with microchips are the older designs. Many of the car manufacturers are using ECU's that were designed 10-15 years ago and use larger and more components. Ineos have the advantage, assuming they took it, to use ECU's that are less than 5 years old. These have fewer components, they are much smaller and are easier to manufacture. Car manufacturers typically only change when a completely new model is released.

 

[DCPU]

I read the below article that suggest the wait time for a new Toyota 70 series could be 4 years or never. What are the chances of IG falling into the same category of delays and/or does the reduced technology mitigate this somewhat. If production of new cars are taking this long it can only drive up the price and value for what people will pay for either a new or used 4wd.

Just something to put that in context:

"TOKYO -- Toyota said Wednesday it would stick to its plan to produce 9.7 million vehicles globally this fiscal year, even as it announced another stoppage related to the spread of COVID-19."

https://www.europe.autonews.com/automakers/toyota-keeps-plan-build-97m-vehicles-despite-factory-stoppages

For whatever internal reasons, Toyota doesn't want to put any effort into reducing waiting times for these.

 

[Caladan]

I read the below article that suggest the wait time for a new Toyota 70 series could be 4 years or never. What are the chances of IG falling into the same category of delays and/or does the reduced technology mitigate this somewhat. If production of new cars are taking this long it can only drive up the price and value for what people will pay for either a new or used 4wd. This can only be a good thing for IG and potential owners, but keen to get opinions from others on this forum.

I have a feeling and hope Ineos will honour the current cost of purchase, but start increasing costs to reflect the market conditions post July 2023.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-wait-times-model-by-model/

Good question. We can see here in the US that (for any car/truck), the shortage of available inventory in the face of high demand is NOT a good thing for the potential buyer. High demand and small inventory has enabled dealerships (regardless of brand) to add what is called "Additional Dealer Markup" (ADM) to the base price recommended by the factory. And because inventory is so short, potential buyers will pay these stupid prices to get a vehicle, which only reinforces the dealers' bad behavior. Thus, a lot of people are being priced out of the auto market.

I've been going thru this exact situation with the Ford Bronco. I factory ordered one in 2021 (before I learned about the Grenadier) and signed a purchase agreement at $54,000 USD. Ford hasn't been able to build this truck due to component shortages, it hasn't been scheduled for production and the order will just be carried forward into 2023. During this time, dealerships that have received customer ordered Bronco's in some cases have tacked on a mark-up of $5,000 to $25,000! In most cases, the buyers who factory ordered those Bronco's have either argued with their dealer, reported them to their state's attorney general, torn up the order and walked away or (frequently) just paid the mark-up. (How do I know this? Because they report their horrible experiences on two major forums - BroncoNation and Bronco6G.)

I'm more hopeful for a better experience from INEOS simply because I think INEOS will be able to produce enough Grenadiers to meet initial demand; the dealership experience might be slightly different here in the US; and if we're talking "market timing", I think we're headed for market correction here in the US.