US Fuel Recommendation

[Ragman]

I was curious so I reached out to Ineos to inquire as to required octane for US version-here you go.

"Thank you. I have the recommended fuel for the Grenadier as follows by our technical team - Fuel quality required, (Sulphur) [ppm] 30 Recommended pump octane 91, Minimum 87"

Premium fuel recommended. I assume the engine detunes itself a bit with 87 octane so fill ups will not be cheap. I wonder how this plays in other parts of the world?

 

[Asnes]

Engine adjusts timing to try and prevent pre detonation / knocking and resulting damage caused lower octane fuel. You will have fuel efficiency as a result.

Knock sensors detect and the ECM/ECU solves for this by adjusting various engine parameters. Personally I would run 91 when it’s available. Likely a wash on cost of 91 vs loss in fuel efficiency if 91 is available.

You don’t buy a grenadier if you’re worried about cost of fuel it’s a heavy, brick-shaped thirsty beast.

 

[YellowLab]

Engine adjusts timing to try and prevent pre detonation / knocking and resulting damage caused lower octane fuel. You will have fuel efficiency as a result.

Knock sensors detect and the ECM/ECU solves for this by adjusting various engine parameters. Personally I would run 91 when it’s available. Likely a wash on cost of 91 vs loss in fuel efficiency if 91 is available.

You don’t buy a grenadier if you’re worried about cost of fuel it’s a heavy, brick-shaped thirsty beast.

With all the aerodynamics of a Sub Zero Refrigerator.....

 

[Krabby]

I was curious so I reached out to Ineos to inquire as to required octane for US version-here you go.

"Thank you. I have the recommended fuel for the Grenadier as follows by our technical team - Fuel quality required, (Sulphur) [ppm] 30 Recommended pump octane 91, Minimum 87"

Premium fuel recommended. I assume the engine detunes itself a bit with 87 octane so fill ups will not be cheap. I wonder how this plays in other parts of the world?

Think there’s an advantage running higher than 91? I used Sunoco 93 in my Raptor and other vehicles I’ve owned that required premium.

 

[anand]

Think there’s an advantage running higher than 91? I used Sunoco 93 in my Raptor and other vehicles I’ve owned that required premium.

East coast 91 or Rockies/West coast 91? Back in a previous life, when tuning European sedans and sports cars, we found a notable power difference between West Coast (SoCal specifically) 91 octane and our East coast (think Sheetz/Wawa) 91 octane that was available alongside our normal 93 octane. One of the companies that we worked with commented that their SoCal 91 was more akin to our 89 octane on a good day.

With that being said, running higher octane fuel than what the vehicle is tuned for won't generate any more power or necessarily be "better" for it, the only real way to know how aggressive the timing and fueling constraints in the ECU (DME) calibration are would be based on some data logging on different fuels to measure timing curves and knock.

 

[Tom109]

A co-worker that was formerly with Exxon-Mobil, told me the biggest difference in fuel source is the additive package. So no-name stations or Costco/Wawa type locations fall below the additive quality of Exxon, Shell, Chevron, etc.

Back to 91 fuel, a local station owner (sadly passed away this year) told me his mid-grade fuel was 50:50 93+87. Is this industry standard?

 

[vjmvjm]

A co-worker that was formerly with Exxon-Mobil, told me the biggest difference in fuel source is the additive package. So no-name stations or Costco/Wawa type locations fall below the additive quality of Exxon, Shell, Chevron, etc.

Back to 91 fuel, a local station owner (sadly passed away this year) told me his mid-grade fuel was 50:50 93+87. Is this industry standard?

Uh, Costco fuel is Top-Tier. So are several "no-name" brands. Does your co-worker know the actual formulations of the additive packages that are supposedly inferior? https://www.toptiergas.com/gasoline-brands/

 

[Tom109]

Uh, Costco fuel is Top-Tier. So are several "no-name" brands. Does your co-worker know the actual formulations of the additive packages that are supposedly inferior? https://www.toptiergas.com/gasoline-brands/

Yes, he apparently does (based on his Exxon experience). I will ask him to clarify “top tier”. Our previous discussion he simply stated, Costco is fine if you don’t care about your engine. The actual fuel refinery source is often the same, it’s what each brand adds to it.

 

[anand]

I'm more surprised this hasn't turned into a discussion regarding E0, E5, E10, E15, and "wHy IsN't iT fLeX fUeL".

Just realized I never actually responded to the OP... @Ragman so with it intended to run on our 91 octane, and able to run on 87 most likely means it has a very mild timing curve, and will rely on knock sensors to further pull timing to work on 87 octane. For the RoW, finding what is equivalent to our 87 octane is very easy. As far as I'm aware, North America (maybe South America as well?) are the only places that use our form of "octane" rating (utilizing the Anti Knock Index, or AKI; it is the average of the fuel's RON and MON).

What we call 87 octane, is equivalent to 91 octane in the Europe, as they utilize RON only for their octane rating. Our 91 octane in the US is 95RON (or 95 octane) in Europe and anywhere else that follows that rating.

This is particularly confusing as the Grenadier is intended to use 91AKI (95RON) but can be run safely on 87AKI (91RON)

 

[vjmvjm]

Yes, he apparently does (based on his Exxon experience). I will ask him to clarify “top tier”. Our previous discussion he simply stated, Costco is fine if you don’t care about your engine. The actual fuel refinery source is often the same, it’s what each brand adds to it.

I've driven vehicles hundreds of thousands of miles primarily on Costco fuel, including BMWs. I guess I didn't care about my engines. There are a lot of old wives' tales out there based upon nebulous marketing, with few facts to back them up. More or different additives do not necessarily equal better or necessary for an engine.

 

[Tom109]

I've driven vehicles hundreds of thousands of miles primarily on Costco fuel, including BMWs. I guess I didn't care about my engines. There are a lot of old wives' tales out there based upon nebulous marketing, with few facts to back them up. More or different additives do not necessarily equal better or necessary for an engine.

He’s a chemical engineer (PhD). I’ll try to get clarification.

 

[Ragman]

I came from the oil industry. Your friend is right that, for the most part, the difference in gasolines is the additive package. With very few exceptions all gasoline, if not put in trucks directly at the refinery or thorough a proprietary company pipeline, is mixed together through pipelines and storage tanks. Also the no brand gasoline is purchased from the same refineries and distribution terminals as the branded gasoline. All gasoline must meet certain minimum requirements. The Top Tier Gasoline has higher doses of additive, above that minimum standard and not all additives are the same. That is why the brands advertise their proprietary additive packages such as BP Invigorate. There are also companies that only make additive and sell it to the no brand stations, but it still has to meet minimum requirements.

I tend to purchase primarily from the company I retired from but don't put too much thought into it. I also try to buy gasoline from stations with high turnover to avoid potential issues such as water but if you research top tier and buy from those stations and buy the appropriate octane don't stress about it. I think your friend from XOM trashing Costco gas is off base as I guarantee XOM sells gasoline to Costco.

My two cents.

 

[Krabby]

A bump that maybe NA dealers can address - what fuel grade is recommended? I've read "premium" but no rating was given - is 91 sufficient? Or is something like Sunoco 93 required?

 

[Reducs]

Assignment to early shop visitors: Pop the fuel door when the demos land and see if they've got the octane stickers yet!

Speaking of which... door is on the right, right? SO MUCH EASIER at Costco!

 

[Jack123]

Assignment to early shop visitors: Pop the fuel door when the demos land and see if they've got the octane stickers yet!

Speaking of which... door is on the right, right? SO MUCH EASIER at Costco!

I read once that in Australia, they mostly use regular gas. I believe partly because it's mostly flat lands...

 

[anand]

A bump that maybe NA dealers can address - what fuel grade is recommended? I've read "premium" but no rating was given - is 91 sufficient? Or is something like Sunoco 93 required?

91 is what the fuel door says

 

[anand]

Assignment to early shop visitors: Pop the fuel door when the demos land and see if they've got the octane stickers yet!

I'll get you a photo in the morning

 

[Jiman01]

I’ve heard no ethanol added gas is better for your engine but around here it’s only in 87. So if the IG can handle a range from 87-91 safely, would you use 87 w/o ethanol or 91 w/ 10% ethanol?….same price.

 

[DaveB]

I’ve heard no ethanol added gas is better for your engine but around here it’s only in 87. So if the IG can handle a range from 87-91 safely, would you use 87 w/o ethanol or 91 w/ 10% ethanol?….same price.

I wouldn't put fuel with ethanol in it into any engine, unless the fuel lines and fittings have been designed for it.

 

[Ragman]

A bump that maybe NA dealers can address - what fuel grade is recommended? I've read "premium" but no rating was given - is 91 sufficient? Or is something like Sunoco 93 required?

I am of the mind that 91 is what they consider premium. You cannot find 93 in the vast majority of markets. There was another comment about blending to get mid-grade and that is the standard, mix a certain level of premium and regular to get mid-grade. You can also create mid-grade by blending 87 with ethanol. Now to make it even more complex here in the midwest where ethanol blending is common there is a grade called sub-grade that is designed specifically for ethanol blending which, once blended is 87 octane. So you will see 87 no ethanol, 87 with ethanol, mid-grade with ethanol and premium either way. Ethanol blend is 10% but some are pushing for 15% which (and don;'t quote me on this) is something I have not seen manufacturers weigh in on as to any impact on engines and components.